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Old 11-29-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,840 posts, read 30,072,374 times
Reputation: 19016

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
I'm a complete outsider to this forum in general, but I have read every page of this thread, and while I feel genuinely sad for the dysfunctional dynamics that are destroying the peace in the OP's family, I cannot help but notice that the OP's need to constantly bleed on and on about this, for over a full year now in this thread alone, in thousands and thousands of words on the subject, tells a tale all it's own.

There is clearly a lot more going on in this family than just a 'rotten' DIL calling the shots. I suspect another year from now will find this thread still alive and well with the same complaints and the same constant putdowns and nitpicks (as an example, read the last sentence in the OP's post just above mine - there's hundreds just like it scattered throughout this thread) hurled 'anonymously' at this DIL, whom it is abundantly clear the OP has an incredible amount of contempt for.

Very sad for everyone involved.
contempt no, frustration, hurt and confusion, yes...and anger a lot of times...., when your husband only earns much less then most people do, and works 3 jobs to support her expensive habbits, so much so, that he goes to another country to work....yes...and when a family member says, "She is very expensive to keep"....and not a nice person...who is disconnected from my family...yes...it's difficult to say the least...

You would bleed on and on about this if it were your son and your family being ignored, rejected and talked to the way she has. My mother used to send her gifts...and never once did she call to thank her...not once...

and my frustrations are hurled at my DIL, this has been a life changing event, and has hurt a lot of people...my sisters, my brother and my now deceased mother....not to mention, my GD....she has made it perfectly clear she does not want any of us in her life...my son, in 12 years, has not been in contact, or visited my side of the family. And by the way...I can't tell you how many people have called me, family members and friends and have told me how rude she was to them at the wedding....

and if I do vent a year from now, it's b/c I'm hurt, and missing what others have...a close family without these kind of complications....

if I were such a bad person, how come my son's friends and they're wives still come to see me? Call me, invite me to their homes for dinners, holidays, etc. Believe me, it's not just me...but others have seen her attitude as well....

and oh yes she does call the shots...my son's father is remarried, and as I said, they are scared to death of her, that she will do the same thing to them, as she's done to me....when they go visit them, they cannot stay longer then 2 or 3 days...and they don't stay in my son and DIL's home...

There are some people in this world who are in fact narcissistic...and care nothing about the feelings of others....not even their daughters.

when this all started happening, my son was in just as much shock as I was....it hurt him deeply...he actually cried....

it is very difficult, to have compassion for a woman like this...when she makes it so evident that she hates me....

and by the way...once during a visit, they had complany over, and yanno what she did...talked about people they were affiliated with...talked about them the entire time, then when their company left, she talked about each one of them...nothing nice to say about them...but was jealous of them, b/c they were older and were doing so much more traveling...then she talked about another friend of theirs...who I must say, everyone that was there, seemed very nice, socilized nicely and the one woman was a sweetheart...her eyes actually glowed...but my DIL talked about her....petty stuff...

and yes, I do bleed about it...it's been a life changing event, one of which I hope you never ever have to deal with or know. Thank God for this forum, so that I can come back and vent...

it's so easy for a stranger to judge...you don't know the half of it...the hurt of it all...it's always there....and it's heartbreaking....

Just ask anyone who has been through it, both DIL and MIL's alike...

It is awful to know, that your son has married a woman who hates you...and has driven a wedge between us all....I started this thread for those like me who are having problems with their MIL's or DIL's to come in and vent if they'd like....it surely helps...some have, which is good...a lot of people who are experiencing this fear venting....and keep it all pent up inside....which is not healthy...

it's good to know others who deal with the same situation, hear their stories, and know, they know what your feeling. The frustrations, rejections and like I said before, if she can treat me like this...you wonder what kind of life is he dealing with?

Last edited by cremebrulee; 11-29-2009 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
11,027 posts, read 6,451,592 times
Reputation: 13258
Well, since this is a public thread in which you've asked for advice, I will give you my own two cents of it all. I'm sorry that you see any dissenting opinion as judging, but by posting this on a public forum you did sign yourself up for opinions from both sides of the fence - those who agree with you and support you, and those who feel differently. Try to listen to both sides, and perhaps you will see an angle that you had not thought of before. I know you want people to walk a mile in your shoes, and you say that we can't understand if we aren't there - but without her side of the story and a walk in her shoes, it's not really possible for anyone to reach a complete and unbiased verdict, right?

From your posts I have gathered that you have been critical of this woman literally since day one. You wanted your son to marry someone that would become your friend - you have vocalized this desire many times here - and you are hurt because this failed to happen. For whatever reasons, she never wanted to engage you in 'girl talk', she never wanted to exchange emails about clothing and recipes, she didn't want to go out shopping and to lunch with you, she failed to meet your standards in terms of acknowledging gifts and pleasantries, and from there your list of complaints just goes on and on. For better or for worse, she has simply never felt obligated to make you a part of her every day life. Because she does not want things the way that you do, you feel that she has 'taken' your son away from you. She has every right however to feel the way that she does, no matter how hurtful this is to you. When marriage takes place among two young people, there is no obligation on either part to marry the rest of the family as well, as much as we may wish for this to happen. While you have very right to be disappointed about this, you've turned that disappointment into a scathing decade-long vendetta of criticism and nagging that has sadly alienated you from your son and now your granddaughter, too.

Your DIL, having grown up in a dysfunctional and unhappy family herself, never really stood a chance with you. Not only did she not know how to interact with people very well to begin with, but she has failed for over a decade now to meet your high expectations of family life and make your dreams of one big happy & close-knit family come true. She sounds like an unhappy woman who has plenty of problems of her own and that is unfortunate, but 11 years later your son is still married to her. Whether or not it's because he's happy or just afraid to leave is immaterial. You've had ample time to get used to her refusal to play nice with you and foster a modified relationship with your son that minimizes her presence and your irritation. You perceive her every move as a slight against you and I suspect you are unable to communicate with your son without bringing this subject up, so now that relationship is affected, too.

My other thought is that you are way too involved in your son's personal life in the first place. You have made free to comment on his finances, his employment history, his home life, his family's spending habits, his interpersonal relationships with others, etc. You have by your own admissions here clearly interfered with his adult life far more than any parent should. The things you have told complete strangers about his personal life here are shameful. You may not have given us his name or posted pictures of him, but you have betrayed his confidence page after page after page here. You've also admitted to discussing his personal life with other family members, his friends, and who knows whom else. You feel compelled to butt into his business as much as you like under the guise that as his mother and the woman he was once close with, it is your right. Unfortunately, you've criticized so many aspects about his life with his wife and have bled to him so frequently over your hurt feelings over the past 11 years that he now avoids you, too ... and yet instead of realizing how you might be partially responsible for this estrangement, you simply blame it all on his wife. She is certainly responsible for her own fair share of this, but there's a lot more to it than that and I believe you just don't want to see that.

You've predicted yourself in this thread that nothing is going to change and that a year from now you might still be bleeding over this on this very thread. My suggestion is that you stop bleeding and get some perspective of all of this ... and find something more useful of your time than complaining and disclosing personal family business to complete strangers about your son and his wife. Take the love that you feel you are being denied from sharing with them and give it to someone who will appreciate it. Become a mentor for a young girl. Volunteer at a women's shelter. Volunteer at a local library or daycare center. Take your anger and upset and turn it into something useful and positive and make a happy change to the life of someone who will appreciate it.

I wish you luck.

Last edited by ATX Wahine; 11-29-2009 at 04:24 PM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,840 posts, read 30,072,374 times
Reputation: 19016
Quote:
Nor Cal Wahine Well, since this is a public thread in which you've asked for advice, I will give you my own two cents of it all. I'm sorry that you see any dissenting opinion as judging, but by posting this on a public forum you did sign yourself up for opinions from both sides of the fence - those who agree with you and support you, and those who feel differently. Try to listen to both sides, and perhaps you will see an angle that you had not thought of before. I know you want people to walk a mile in your shoes, and you say that we can't understand if we aren't there - but without her side of the story and a walk in her shoes, it's not really possible for anyone to reach a complete and unbiased verdict, right?
You are absolutely right...I've gone over it in my mind a million times...what did I do to cause her so much pain, that she deems it necessary to cut me out of her life...? I don't know, she won't discuss anything with me? I want to know...but she would never sit down and talk to me about it.

1st time, I went to visit them, right after they were married, I really didn't want to go..b/c her sister was going and I thought to myself..."this is a special time for her and her sister to be together".

My son wrote me an email asking if I'd like to help to cook Thanksgiving Dinner. He said, my new DIL, never cooked a thanksgiving dinner...so, sure, I said, and was very honored that they asked me to do so. So, I sent him a grocery list of things we needed.

On the way down, on the plane, all her sister kept talking about is how you date men who are rich, and take advantage of them, you use them and if they don't do what you want, you drop them and move onto the next rich man...men, to her were objects, things. I was horrified at her attitude...and disconnection with reality. By the time we got off the plane I was fumming...but kept it in...my son told me, he could tell I was angry...nothing more was said.

I don't remember much else about the trip (I have M.S.) except the following...the next day, the girls decided to go shopping, while my son went to work. I hate shopping...hate it...so, I bowed out, deciding that they should go together, they had more in common with each other, and me tagging along might be a bit cumbersome for them, so I politely said...thanks but I think I'll stay here and take walks, read, etc. They left early, maybe 9 - 9:30...at first I was fine...but it soon became 3 p.m. in the afternoon, then 5 p.m., then 7 p.m. the phone rang...I felt uncomfortable answering it. It was my DIL, stating that they would be home soon, they were going to stop and get a pizza.

I was starved and annoyed at being left alone in that apartment all that time, without a car. Never did I realize, that they would stay away that long and felt it was very rude and unthinking of them to do so.

They came home and I didn't say a word about it...and we ate, not long after my son arrived home....I remember my DIL, going in and out of the bedroom for long periods of time. I asked her sister, what was wrong, and she replied very aloof, "She has a headache". It was weird...then my son arrived home...and my DIL jumped over the sofa, into his arms screaming..."honey"...it was weird. Like he had been gone for days.

Then my son announced we were going out....he was taking us to a place that was a tourist attraction, with tons of different bars and great music. Boy was I happy...as I loved to dance.

Upon arriving at one of the bars...I found it very appealing, new, different, and such a happy place. I asked my DIL if she wanted to dance...she was in a mood and snapped at me "NO!" So, I ignored it, and tried to get back into the feel of the place...more and more people gathered, and I was having fun...then, all of a sudden, I saw my DIL and son, at the other end of the bar fighting with each other...I'm thinking, "What the heck is going on?". I ask her sister, "why are they arguing?" She says, "Ohhhh he's all pissed off b/c my sister and I had a bet going, who was going to be the first one to pick up a guy". I said, "What?" thinking to myself....they were just married, why would she do something like that, not only to him, but in front of her MIL? It, wasn't funny, nor was it moral...or a nice thing to do.

So, the next day, my son leaves for work, they decide we're going to go to a movie. We stop on the way, b/c her sister wanted to pick something up...I remember we were talking about my weight, and how I lost so much weight...(I had just gone thru a very stressful seperation, so I wasn't eating well) I have a very dry sense of humor, and told her, no, I'm not eating well, but if you tell DS...I'll deny it. It was a joke, but she didn't laugh.

We got out of the car to go into the movie and instead of them waiting for me, they walked ahead of me, way ahead....they paid for my ticket and I thanked them...invited them to get some popcorn or soda...they said no. We sat down in the movie, and were talking, but I could feel an uneasyness...like they both didn't like me...they were cold and distant...and not friendly. I cracked another joke, to try and break the ice...but nothing...later my son told me, and I don't remember what was said, that they took me seriously. Please remember this was 12 years ago.

I'm becoming more and more adgitated, all I wanted to do was run away and go home...I could not understand why they were treating me so cruely and was very aggitated.

Thanksgiving Dinner day came, and again, my DIL was going in and out of the bedroom...for long periods of time...I didn't have a clue?????? And didn't think anything of it...so I proceeded to make the stuffing...my DIL insisted on making the Turkey, so I said, OK...but could tell she was aggitated...I thought maybe her and her sister had a riff? MY DIL insisted on putting the Turkey in late...she had no idea how long it needed to be roasted. I didn't interfer...I felt like she was upset that I made the stuffing...again, remember, my son wrote me and asked me to do this. Later when he and I discussed it, he said he didn't ask me to do that...I said, well I sent you the grocery list, like you asked?

I think, she knew nothing of my son's request....but was way to dense to realize it then? I dunno....

I knew that I wasn't welcome, and it was a very difficult time being there...I was scared...really scared thinking, my God, if you say anything you could loose your son forever...just keep your mouth shut and soon you'll be flying out...but I was screaming inside...confused...upset, hurt...I had never been treated so rudely by anyone before. It was like instantly after my son and she were married, her and her sister hated me???????

I know this sounds nuts...but, sometimes I wonder if, they got together and planned the whole thing...I dunno?

Upon arriving home, I spilled my guts out to my family...we all discussed it, over and over again, trying to understand what had happened, what I did?

My son calls me and asks me what's wrong...I said, nothing...but he kept it up and I spilled my guts.

He started defending her actions, which he should...but, it was to heated of a discussion and I felt like he was saying to me, I was making all this stuff up...and that hurt...he knew me better then anyone and knew I was a straight shooter.

I never knew what really happened...I can only surmise.

Next trip down there, my family said, "I don't think you should go"....I assured them, that everything was ok, now...it was just a misunderstanding, and all was well...but, DIL and I had never talked about it....and I felt, since my son invited me down, that all was well, and I was surely willing to forgive and forget.

They had bought a house...it was charming....they were both working...I stayed there one night as they worked and was reading. She seemed ok...but there was no food in the refrigerator....nothing I could really munch on...then, later that evening...I heard her come home so, I jumped up and met her at the door...she really snapped at me, never took off her coat...proceeded to go to every single cabinet, open each one up, and slamming them shut...I went to myself..."oh, boy, now what did I do", and slinked back into the living room, and sat on the sofa. she walks in her bedroom and slammed the door shut, period....then my son walks in and she comes out and is sweet as can be?????

I didn't know it then, but now, I feel as if she didn't want me in her house. I really think that is what made her made at me? It was wrong of me to do that, I should have stayed in a motel, but I didn't know, honestly, I didn't.

Quote:
From your posts I have gathered that you have been critical of this woman literally since day one.
No, I wasn't, honest I wasn't...I loved her immediately and was so happy they were getting married...extactic....nothing started until after they were married...I thought she really liked me...but I guess she didn't.

Quote:
You wanted your son to marry someone that would become your friend - you have vocalized this desire many times here - and you are hurt because this failed to happen.
YES, Of course I did, and of couse I was hurt...very hurt..my family, we were so greatful for family, my mother loved her inlaws...and they constantly came to visit us. I remember being confused, thinking my dad's parents were my mother's parents, cuz she adored them, and her sister and brother in laws. My friends all had such lovely DIL's, they all got along so well...matter of fact, my one girlfriend's son and his wife seperated and her ex DIL are still friends...that to me is good and healthy.


Quote:
For whatever reasons, she never wanted to engage you in 'girl talk', she never wanted to exchange emails about clothing and recipes, she didn't want to go out shopping and to lunch with you
no, she didn't and I started to think about things that my son's father and step mother said about her, and I defended her...ignoring their what I thought to be critical jugements....

Quote:
she failed to meet your standards in terms of acknowledging gifts and pleasantries,
yes, she did...but I thought it was b/c of her upbringing....no two people ever think alike, but...yes, it hurt when she failed to call and say thankyou...quit frankly, one christmas I painted a desk for my Grand daugher...and put her name on the desk....when they came in, I was more thrilled that my DIL immediately said, "That is beautiful" b/c she never really acknowledged or seemed to appreciate anything I did for them. But that made my heart so happy and it wasn't fake...my DIL isn't impressed easily.

Quote:
and from there your list of complaints just goes on and on. For better or for worse, she has simply never felt obligated to make you a part of her every day life.
Yes, the list gets bigger...the more a person is rejected, the more hurt and angry I became...so, even the small things she did, b/c huge, out of anger...

Quote:
Because she does not want things the way that you do, you feel that she has 'taken' your son away from you.
Yes, what I feel, and what I know to be the truth, are two seperate entities...yes, I'm devestated that she doesn't like me...and devestated that a wedge has been driven between my son and myself. But, as far as everyday life, no, I am not a person who cares to have people around me all the time...and I left my son go, a long long time ago...I am not a smothering type of person..not to mention, we live far away from each other...which only granted us time together one or two times a year. And I felt, we only are together for a short time, why can't we just get along...we don't have to like each other, but why can't we just drop all this stuff and get along...so I kept trying and trying...

Quote:
She has every right however to feel the way that she does, no matter how hurtful this is to you. When marriage takes place among two young people, there is no obligation on either part to marry the rest of the family as well, as much as we may wish for this to happen.
You may be right here...but I feel when you get married, you marry the family as well...and everyone should try to get along...not everyone clicks, and I know now, that for reasons unknown to me, my DIL hates me...but that is her choice...not everyone feels comfortable with the same people...but when we're together, why does she act out so cruely...it seems evident to me, while my son is around she was nice to me, when he wasn't she was rude, cruel and snappy, just to let me know, that I am not welcome??????

Quote:
While you have very right to be disappointed about this, you've turned that disappointment into a scathing decade-long vendetta of criticism and nagging that has sadly alienated you from your son and now your granddaughter, too.
Yes, I have, I miss them...miss my Grand daughter and do miss my DIL, b/c when she is in a good mood, she's a joy to be around....and yes, there were times, when my son would call me and ask me what was going on....and he'd push and push, and then I'd explode and tell him all the things that happened...when I did...he defended her behavior...which made me feel like he thought I was lying. And I didn't, I never lied to him about anything that happened. he and I are talking now, but I have not seen them in over 3 years...and after my last visit there, which I will never go there again...I know it's obvious that I wasn't wanted...

When I went down there, all I wanted to do was make her happy...let her know that I wasn't a threat to her in the least, and to help her understand that I wanted to be friends. I took out a loan, and wanted to wine and dine them...wanted to go touring...see things they had both promised we'd see the next time I was down there, so I took out a loan and decided, they were good enough to put me up, I'm goint to treat them to dinners and take them where ever they wanted to go and see...where they live is a great historical city. I was so excited, I had a necklace, braclet and ear rings made for her, which I helped design...one of the girls I work with, who is very up on design, helped me, b/c I know what I like she may not like, there is a generation gap. I gave them to her upon my arrival....she didn't like them....I struck out....

Nope, I was wrong...even though I was paying, we had to go to only the places she wanted to eat...and when she was ready to go...there is one place I love there, and when I asked if we could go, my son said, no she hates it there...there were several times when my son and I went there...and I love that place, but we couldn't go.

Quote:
Your DIL, having grown up in a dysfunctional and unhappy family herself, never really stood a chance with you.
That is one thing I disagree with...and not true...I don't judge people on their past, what I care about is how they treat me now...most people have histories and bad backgrounds, some worse then others...but that doesn't make them bad people.

Quote:
Not only did she not know how to interact with people very well to begin with, but she has failed for over a decade now to meet your high expectations of family life and make your dreams of one big happy & close-knit family come true.
I don't have high expectations but what I did want more then anything was a chance to bond with her...slowly...to understand her, but I was never given the chance to love her....not really...and that's all I wanted...along with peace within the family yes...but high expectations, I had none, other then to get along...if she would have not wanted that, and would have told me, I would have understood. Hurt yes, but would understand her desire for privacy and setting up her own house hold.


Quote:
She sounds like an unhappy woman who has plenty of problems of her own and that is unfortunate, but 11 years later your son is still married to her. Whether or not it's because he's happy or just afraid to leave is immaterial. You've had ample time to get used to her refusal to play nice with you and foster a modified relationship with your son that minimizes her presence and your irritation.
I think she is a very unhappy woman, and I think a lot of times, she's angry and she doesn't know why...I think she is very moody, and hurt by her past...I wish I could have helped her believe that not all people are going to reject her...I think she feared me...b/c I was very strict with my son and all his friends...I think, when they talked about my cooking and how they loved me...and enjoyed being there...(my house was theirs as long as they didn't get into serious trouble and they were all well behaved kids that were enjoyable to have around) It's been rather nice watching them all grow up, and having their own families...and they're wives and I do get along well. I feel very sorry for my DIL, sorry for what we are both missing in each other...and then it hurts, then I become angry and resentful, yes....I miss my son...my GD and my DIL very much.

I used to ask them to come and stay with me when they came home to visit, but they refused, my son said, my place then, was to small. That hurt deeply...but I told myself, it was her talking, and not my son...my son was never raised like that...we put people up when need be on the floor...the size didn't matter, what mattered was we were all together. So, I was insulted....and hurt....yes...they always went to his father's house to stay...that in itself was a rejection and hurt so badly.

Quote:
You perceive her every move as a slight against you and I suspect you are unable to communicate with your son without bringing this subject up, so now that relationship is affected, too.
No, we have been communicating for over a 1 1/2 years now and I won't discuss it any longer...it is futile to do so...and when ever we discussed it before, it was always him that wanted to know what I was feeling, it ended up being such a huge fight, hurtful words were spoken...it certainly went no where....didn't even tell him that she sent back the birthday card, with the money...he doesn't need to know that...it won't come from me. All it does is embarrasse him, hurts him and puts him in the middle.

My other thought is that you are way too involved in your son's personal life in the first place. You have made free to comment on his finances, his employment history, his home life, his family's spending habits, his interpersonal relationships with others, etc.

Perhaps so...I'm second guessing, and as sure as he wants to work 3 jobs, it hurts and saddens me, that he's been doing this all these years to provide for her...yes, it is none of my business...but he's my son, a parent wants what is best for her son, and even though it's his choice, it makes me angry that he gave up his life for hers....he is now living her idea of what his life should be...my gosh, he used to be so involved, had so many friends, was a people magnet...now, all he does is work....work, work, and then also cooks at times, does the shopping, cleans...my God...?????? Yes, it is none of my business....but it makes me sad that he has given up everything...

the first thing he said when he got to Afghanistan is, "It's kinda nice to just know that sitting and relaxing will be a new event in my life".

Quote:
You have by your own admissions here clearly interfered with his adult life far more than any parent should. The things you have told complete strangers about his personal life here are shameful.
Yes, your right...and I was wrong, for doing so...

Quote:
You may not have given us his name or posted pictures of him, but you have betrayed his confidence page after page after page here.
Yes, your right, I have...and feel very ashamed for doing so....


Quote:
You've also admitted to discussing his personal life with other family members, his friends, and who knows whom else.
yes, I have, they were all just as confused as I was as to what was happening...my family is very open with each other...and so are his friends open with me...and I them...is it wrong, perhaps it is...but I'm a very open person...

You feel compelled to butt into his business as much as you like under the guise that as his mother and the woman he was once close with, it is your right.

No, it is not my right...absolutely....not...


Quote:
Unfortunately, you've criticized so many aspects about his life with his wife and have bled to him so frequently over your hurt feelings over the past 11 years that he now avoids you, too
I'm sure your partically right, but there was a time a few years back, things were so bad....we couldn't talk on the phone without him asking me about it...and I didn't want to discuss it any more...so I asked him to give me space and stay away for awhile...it took me two years to get over how badly she talked to me and treated me the last time I was there...again...always when he wasn't around...when they were taking me back to the airport....we stopped in a store...he was talking with the saleman...she walked over to me, and I tried to spark up a conversation...to show her, I wasn't angry...I don't know, something about the weather, whatever...she gives me this look, never answers me, walks to the front of the store and sits down and gets this look on her face like I just slapped her? She plays the victim in front of my son??????? I don't get that? What did I say...during that time when I was there, we were in the kitchen and I asked her, "is there something I can do to help you?"....she snaps at me..."Oh just calm down and go away". Constant rejection...and reminder that I shouldn't be there...and am not welcome.

... and yet instead of realizing how you might be partially responsible for this estrangement, you simply blame it all on his wife. She is certainly responsible for her own fair share of this, but there's a lot more to it than that and I believe you just don't want to see that.

I realize there are things that I have probably done that hurt her...I just wish I knew what...I'm flying blindly, and when your constantly rejected and reminded that your not liked, you retailiate...

yes, I am wrong about how I look at things...but I have nothing else to go on....and I'm angry b/c she has hurt so many lives...and more hurt and angry at her for not giving me a chance...it was like, all nice until they were married, and then wham....a completely different girl...?

You've predicted yourself in this thread that nothing is going to change and that a year from now you might still be bleeding over this on this very thread.

Yes, I probably will, I've not only lost my son, but a daughter and a grand daughter....and it's very very painful to accept...it's lonely without them in my life to some degree...all I wanted to do was love her...and if I hurt her, which I'm sure I did, then talk to me about it, tell me what I did wrong...I mean, I don't understand, how people can just shut you out, and off without a word?????


Quote:
My suggestion is that you stop bleeding and get some perspective of all of this ... and find something more useful of your time than complaining and disclosing personal family business to complete strangers about your son and his wife.
That part makes me very angry, I'm sorry, but while I know your probably right, you cannot imagine the hurt...I do know that when your children get married, life as you know it changes...fine...it should, it's normal...but why can't I have a relationship with my DIL like all my friends have with theirs.

My girlfriends call me and tell me what they're DIL's do for them, how they treat them...how they insist on having parties for them, cooking for them...they love their MIL's.

My one neighbor who I adore...was loosing her husband, he was in the hospital dying...I came home from work, and her DIL was there at the house, all the door and windows were open...she had cleaned the house for her, done her laundry and was doing yard work for her. I walked over to her and asked how her FIL was doing...she looked at me, and asked me if I would look in on mom when he was going...I started to cry and hugged her and said, you know, your MIL has one of the most precious gifts in you....

I so wish.....
yes, I do get angry, hurt and mad, at what has been taken away...and yes, I do delve way to deeply in to their privet lives...and make acquasations...I'm angry b/c my son went to work in a war zone and I'm scared to death something will happen to him...and I don't understand, why, why she won't work and help him out...why????? What if something happens to him...a lot of people ask me over and over again...how can he leave his daughter...I don't know how...all I know is when he was home he never saw her much anyway, he was always working....

I begged him to rethink his decission when he told me, because the time missed with his daughter he will loose, and never be able to regain it back...ever again...but his mind was made up...I am still in shock and scared to death something will happen to him....

he's my son.....I love him dearly...I lost 3 other children...and letting him go is not a problem...I believe that parents should encourage their children to get out there and explore...make their own mistakes and learn from them...I believe we can over protect our children...but this...to live the rest of my days like this...is so unfair....so, useless and down right silly...I hate having bad blood...

Quote:
Take the love that you feel you are being denied from sharing with them and give it to someone who will appreciate it. Become a mentor for a young girl. Volunteer at a women's shelter. Volunteer at a local library or daycare center. Take your anger and upset and turn it into something useful and positive and make a happy change to the life of someone who will appreciate it.
Believe it or not...I have already done that....it seems people are able to talk to me easily...they come to me with their own personal problems...and I do pray for them, and try to send them good karma so that things work out for them. I am devestated when people hurt...I play tough guy...but deep down inside, I'm very soft...and I care about people...

yes, take it and turn it into something useful...yes...well, my son, going away, is another worry that happened not to long ago, so things surfaced again....

it is so easy to tell people how to think and feel...but I'm not like you...I'm me, and I do that best that I can...I can't get over things like you can...some days are great, others are good, and others can be really poopy days...there is a constant reminder that they are not in my life...and I ponder over and over again...how can she be so cruel..why is she doing this? Does she understand how this effects all of us? does she realize how many people this hurts...

Yanno, my own sister said to me one Christmas...."Have you heard from your son?" I said, yeah or no, what ever had happened that particular year, he phoned...she says, "I feel very sorry for your DIL". I said why"? She says, b/c she and her daughter will never have the pleasure of knowing you like we know you?" I should have felt happy and very honored that she said that...but you know what my first instinctual feeling was..."My DIL hates me, I must be no good!" And then it starts..."What did I do to make her hate me so...how did I hurt her?"


I will keep trying to live like this...to accept it...it's all I have...but from time to time...will it surface again, yes, indeed it will, and it will hurt just as bad, and I'll get angry and start tearing my DIL apart, when I really don't mean to, but I'm angry at her for disliking me to the extent of changing my life forever....is that selfish....yes, it is....I didn't have much before, I didn't demand much...when my son was little, I allowed him to be where he wanted to be on holidays, b/c I refused to play tug of war with him like some parents to, or to make him feel guilty for wanting to be with his father instead of me....

I was very strict with him...but loving and rewarding...and when he failed below his potential, I tried to tell him, it was ok...he did fine...and when he was punished I made certain, we talked afterwards, and he understood why he was being punished...and then told him how much I loved him and we'd hug and it we'd move on...

I encouraged him to travel, to leave home and experience life....that life was such a gift, and told him while he was growing up...make certain you don't work your life away, and play with your wife...create events that make you both happy and take breaks together, and do new and exciting things...but, always make certain you have date nights and time alone...and if you ever hit your wife, I'll come to your home and call the cops...you treat your wife with respect and honor...you listen to her and have talks, and if she says your doing something wrong...then you try and understand, she is not putting you down, she is telling you something you do, that hurts her....but I never ever thought, this would happen.

My son, was the light of my life...but there is a time to move on...and he and I both knew when that time came....he wanted to hold on more then I wanted him to, for his wife's sake...and I told him it was wrong...and it probably hurt her...b/c she didn't understand the love a mother and child have.

I thought after she had her own child this might end...b/c she'd then realize that love and realize this was foolish...but no, it got worse...and yet, I was good enough to watch my GD every weekend when they came home, then she was nice to me....and then, just like that, they left...moved back down south...so, be it...but that's when stuff got bad again...why? Why?

What did I do? I talk very little and am afraid to be myself...afraid that no matter what I do or say, it's going to be wrong...so I talk very little...it's horrible, like walking on egg shells...

She tells me I don't call her, and accuses me in front of my son...so I start calling her, she doesn't respond....she got upset once, b/c she walked into my home and I don't hug her hello....I honestly didn't know what to do, so I didn't reach out to her, I was afraid...later my son tells me she was hurt b/c I didn't hug her???????? I don't know what to do? Whatever I do, it's the wrong thing...

I was told, because I smiled and said, "my, she is a little tomboy, isn't she" my DIL was very hurt b/c she tries so hard to make my GD a little girl". So what is wrong with tomboy? How is that insulting...some of the most gorgeous models in the world are tomboys????? It's like every thing I do, is wrong...

My son was talking to me once in my apartment...she was sitting there...he was talking to me about something that had to do with him, a job, something that happened on the job, whatever? ...and she gets up and walks out????? Walks out...rude, and aloof.

He comes back all hurt and on the verge of tears...she's back at his father's house humming...they didn't know anything had happened and were shocked upon hearing about it...they said, it was like she thought, "mission accomplished?"

When I say, his father and is father's family fears my DIL, it's true...they are afraid of her...I am afraid of her to tell you the truth....

She comes to a family dinner, once in 12 years and doesn't talk to anyone...no one...she acts so aloof, so detached and like she's better then everyone else....it makes everyone feel badly....like we're not good enough...she avoids me, and she has hurt me, and when I'm hurt, my sister's and brother and mother of course, will discuss it with me....and so will his friends...out of contempt, to hurt him, no, out of worry...and fear of the unknown...it's natural to do so...it isn't constant, it is though, a subject that comes up...

So, as mean as I may sound, it's hurt and anger....like I said before, I hate this and hate who I have become because of this....

but from time to time, I need to vent, I need to get angry b/c and this is the gospel truth...I don't want to hate her...or blame her...

do I wish anyone to side with me, NO?

And more then anything else, I want to thank you for the way you have humbled me, and made me look at things in a different perspective.
You have to believe this is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do in my life...worse then a divorce...

I'm sorry things didn't work out, and by all means, I'm so so sorry, I hurt her...and him....and that things have to be this way.

All I can do is to leave their lives play out....but it's so hard to be shunned like this...

and I'm not looking for sympathy, just telling you like it is....

and thanks so much for the well wishes, I appreciate the time you've taken to open my eyes to your point of view...when you are personally involved, it's so difficult to see...



Creme

Last edited by cremebrulee; 11-30-2009 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
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Creme, I honestly feel just awful for you ... I really do. I don't have any words left, but I wanted you to know that I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. Regardless of who is right, who is wrong, who started it, who has tried to end it ... etc. the fact still remains that your family is really fractured as a result. I am sorry that it is that way for you all. I'm sure it only gets worse during the holidays as well. I encourage you to please continue devoting your time and energy to activities that bring you and other people joy and happiness. In the meantime, hold on to hope that things with your family will change - they often can, in the blink of an eye.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
Creme, I honestly feel just awful for you ... I really do. I don't have any words left, but I wanted you to know that I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. Regardless of who is right, who is wrong, who started it, who has tried to end it ... etc. the fact still remains that your family is really fractured as a result. I am sorry that it is that way for you all. I'm sure it only gets worse during the holidays as well. I encourage you to please continue devoting your time and energy to activities that bring you and other people joy and happiness. In the meantime, hold on to hope that things with your family will change - they often can, in the blink of an eye.
for me I don't care who started it
I care if I hurt her, and why is she hurt so much

I want to fix it...if I could, it would make so many lives so much more productive
and peaceful...

sometimes it is very difficult not to hate her, and I don't, not really...
I don't want to

I have to keep trying to believe in goodness, and let they're lives play out...it's just so hard without them in my life....and now this fear for my son's life, what in the world would happen to them? To my DIL and GD? I worry...a lot....

thank you for your patience...your time
the way I've talked about my DIL at times...I certainly don't deserve you or those who have understood...I can't imagine how awful it sounds...many have scolded me and I can't say I didn't deserve it...

there has to be so much in all of this for me to learn, if only patience?

and yes, it is so hard around the holidays...so hard....I am blessed with family and friends, yet, it seems so empty without them in my life...

many thanks to you and wishing you and yours a joyous holiday season

Last edited by cremebrulee; 11-30-2009 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
As some of you already know, things have not been good for the past 11 years with my son.

I was just wondering, how many of you DIL's encourage your husband to spend time with his mother?

I hope you do...b/c if it wouldn't be for his mother, he wouldn't be here and you would have never met him.

I constantly see how DIL's rant and rave about their MIL's. Some MIL's are mean, but most are simply older, set in their ways and say what they think.

I've heard some pretty awful things said by DIL's about their MIL's...and it always makes me think this....

If their MIL is really that bad, then she must be having a hell of a time with her husband, b/c the MIL raised him to think and believe as he does...

I have never had to deal with this in my family before....our family was always welcoming family visits...as a lot of them were from out of state. My mother loved her MIL, FIL, etc...and welcomed them in her home. But, the difference is, my mother was a kind person who loved people and wanted to rejoice in their successes...she wasn't intimidated by her MIL, but more so, complimented by her....and never ever, would she have tried to turn her husband against them.

Also, I don't have any friends who have been made to suffer this...they all get along with their DIL's and love them dearly. I couldn't wait to have a DIL...

She had a very difficult childhood...and actually she is the best out of her other sibblings...but very manipulative, cunning and actually scarey...I've had to cut them both off...for the past two years...but I wrote my son, and started calling him...he doesn't reciprocate...I believe he'd feel guilty and wrong if he did...he has compromised his whole being for her...

It is sometimes unconceivable to me, that a woman can be that ruthless? Without guilt, or saddness for the relationship she has destroyed?

I hope and pray, all you DIL's out there realize, your MIL is not threat to you...your husband loves you more, in a very different way, as it should be...but to drive a wedge between mother and son, is ruthless and very cruel.

If your MIL is mean, that that is a different story....but if she is not....please, encourage a relationship with her, don't fear her...learn from her, good and bad...because she is the reason, you find qualities in your husband to love...

any of you out there, have had to deal with this....and please, I ask you, no fighting if your going to respond to this thread...be civil and kind to others...

Thanks
Creme
I'm sorry I'm just not buying it. There's that saying in the bible that when a man takes a wife his mother takes a back seat and the wife becomes number one, or whatever. I don't see how you can put this all on the DIL. It takes two and it would seem you need to look into your part in all of this.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
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Originally Posted by gold*dust1 View Post
I'm sorry I'm just not buying it. There's that saying in the bible that when a man takes a wife his mother takes a back seat and the wife becomes number one, or whatever. I don't see how you can put this all on the DIL. It takes two and it would seem you need to look into your part in all of this.
It says in the Bible a man should take and wife, leaving his family...but most cultures back then, lived together, fathers, mothers, daughters, DIL's, MIL's...brother in laws...so I don't think it was meant literally, besides, how would God be showing his love by telling in laws it's ok to treat your families badly.

It also states in the Bible, that the sins of the Father, shall befall their sons...and so it is to, with Mothers...so, believe what you wish to believe...it doesn't always take two...some people are just very difficult to get along with...bad things do happen to good people...

If you are married to a man, who is abusing you...how would you feel, if someone told you, it takes two...

I will be willing to take ownership in this, when my DIL talks to me and tells me what I did. I admit, I am not perfect...I've made mistakes I'm certain of that...but were they intended mistakes done specifically to hurt her...or because I was just being who I am.

You have to remember...when a person lacks confidence...they tend to take every thing, as a personal attack against they're character...even when you joke. My DIL unfortunately is very very insecure...otherwise, this would not be happening...we would have discussed it maturely and told each other what it was the other did to hurt us....

But to blatenly ignore and estrange my son from his family, well, I know it is done...and it is also done by MIL's. There are simply insecure people out there who are afraid of love. And he has allowed her to do so, so he is just as guilty.

There are people out there who fear allowing their husbands to be on their own...to do things with they're friends...who are so controllling, they can't stand their husbands being happy without them, or they perceive they're husbands talking to someone else, as infactuations....they fear any attention they're husbands or wives give to any one else but them. They are bi-polar, narcissistic, or just plain mixed up due to a very bad upbringing....but they're out there...and they think they own their spouces. Do you realize how many people go thru they're entire lives married to someone like this? Can you imagine living someone else's idea of what YOUR life should be for the rest of your life? That isn't love...that is possession and fear, jealousy. Love encourages your mate to proceed and prosper, intellectually...love is aware that their are needs outside of the marriage...love is sharing, and allowing...giving, and helping each other out...love is companionship and equality....not one sided, and not causing disarry within an entire family. Love is understanding that your mate needs to spend quality time sometimes with they're mother, sister, brother....sometimes people need space...

I do not own my son, but neither does my DIL.

When you marry anyone, you also marry their family, and anyone who is not mature enough to understand that and respect the love their spouse has for their family is in for a very sad life and will cause a lot of pain for a lot of other people.

Family is the foundation of life...family is important, and family is where your husbands and wives come from....my DIL lucked out big time when she married my son...he does EVERYTHING for her...is he easy to live with, probably not...nobody is...is he free from fault, no, no one is...did I make mistakes with her, in her mind I probably did, but I would like to know what things I did do, but the fact of the matter is....when you have a disagreement with someone you talk it out, IF you want to make it better...my DIL never did, she pretended to tolerate me, unless my son wasn't around, then she laid into me to let me know I was not welcome. I didn't get it...didn't understand what she was trying to do....and for 12 years I kept trying...12 years...



Maybe I was supposed to go thru this, b/c I tell you true, if this woman wasn't my son's wife, there is no way I'd be friends with her...I couldn't tollerate her behavior not to mention her lack of compassion for the feelings of others.

I came from a very close family...and have a lot of good friends...I have never ever seen this kind of thing before, nor did I know it existed...so if you have sons, you better pray to God above, that he chooses a woman who has goals, is secure and not looking to be taken care of and insecure...b/c it will hit you faster then a ton of bricks...you will not know what is happening to you.

I personally think, my DIL is a very unhappy person...she is only happy when she is putting new clothes on, she feels like somebody special....it's her drug....like many of us have....and it's a shame she really feels she cannot impress people in any other way, b/c I believe she has great potential....perhaps my one purpose in life is to forgive and keep on forgiving? I don't know?

these things unfortunately do happen and they do exist...just as sure as child abuse, family abuse, sexual abuse, alcohol and drug abuse...
and a great many lives are hurt by things like this, forever.

Last edited by cremebrulee; 11-30-2009 at 02:31 PM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
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Originally Posted by gold*dust1 View Post
I'm sorry I'm just not buying it. There's that saying in the bible that when a man takes a wife his mother takes a back seat and the wife becomes number one, or whatever. I don't see how you can put this all on the DIL. It takes two and it would seem you need to look into your part in all of this.
It says in the Bible a man should take and wife, leaving his family...but most cultures back then, lived together, fathers, mothers, daughters, DIL's, MIL's...brother in laws...so I don't think it was meant literally, besides, how would God be showing his love by telling in laws it's ok to treat your families badly.

It also states in the Bible, that the sins of the Father, shall befall their sons...and so it is to, with Mothers...so, believe what you wish to believe...it doesn't always take two...some people are just very difficult to get along with...bad things do happen to good people...

If you are married to a man, who is abusing you...how would you feel, if someone told you, it takes two...

I will be willing to take ownership in this, when my DIL talks to me and tells me what I did. I admit, I am not perfect...I've made mistakes I'm certain of that...but were they intended mistakes done specifically to hurt her...or because I was just being who I am.

You have to remember...when a person lacks confidence...they tend to take every thing, as a personal attack against they're character...even when you joke. My DIL unfortunately is very very insecure...otherwise, this would not be happening...we would have discussed it maturely and told each other what it was the other did to hurt us....

But to blatenly ignore and estrange my son from his family, well, I know it is done...and it is also done by MIL's. There are simply insecure people out there who are afraid of love. And he has allowed her to do so, so he is just as guilty.

There are people out there who fear allowing their husbands to be on their own...to do things with they're friends...who are so controllling, they can't stand their husbands being happy without them, or they perceive they're husbands talking to someone else, as infactuations....they fear any attention they're husbands or wives give to any one else but them. They are bi-polar, narcissistic, or just plain mixed up due to a very bad upbringing....but they're out there...and they think they own their spouces. Do you realize how many people go thru they're entire lives married to someone like this? Can you imagine living someone else's idea of what YOUR life should be for the rest of your life? That isn't love...that is possession and fear, jealousy. Love encourages your mate to proceed and prosper, intellectually...love is aware that their are needs outside of the marriage...love is sharing, and allowing...giving, and helping each other out...love is companionship and equality....not one sided, and not causing disarry within an entire family. Love is understanding that your mate needs to spend quality time sometimes with they're mother, sister, brother....sometimes people need space...

Love is NOT expecting someone to work for you the rest of their lives, 3 jobs, to keep your expensive habits...Love is not using someone, and refusing to do your fair share of the work. I understand SAHM....but if those mom's spend, money they do not have and run up the charges, and they're kids are now in school all day...that is an infidelity to your mate, and the same goes for men. If a SAHM is helping out by cleaning, shopping, filling her own car with gas....having supper on the table for your man/woman, taking the trash out, doing laundry...with two or more kids....that is a career in itself, but it does not mean, you can take advantage of your spouse and buy beyond your means, so that your husband has to work the rest of his life, paying off your debts.


I do not own my son, but neither does my DIL. No one owns anyone...not your children, or spouses...they are human beings being given the gift of life, not to obey inexcusable behavior...a human being needs quality time to do with that time what he wishes...he needs down time....to relax, and just do nothing if he so wishes...but to work 3 jobs for years on end...has got to burn you out, and for what? Someone who doesn't appreciate you enough to know that's wrong? But companionship is sharing...

There is no reason why a man who works any full time job should be expected to come home and do chores, shopping, laundry, folding laundry, while the wife sits at home all day...I'm sorry, that is just plain wrong and using someone. A spouce who stays at home should have that house clean and a meal on the table for their families...if both work you should share the housework and do it together...

My DIL wants wants wants and still is not happy....she wants more, then she tires of things, and she gets rid of them, then wants more.

She gets very offended if they go to somone else's home and that someone asks her child (my GD) not to do something and explains to her why she doesn't want it done...she actually gets mad b/c someone else is setting rules on their property. What does that teach the child...they don't understand, that they're are different rules in different households. And rules are to be obeyed...rules may not always seem fair, but they are there for a reason....

When you marry anyone, you also marry their family, and anyone who is not mature enough to understand that and not only respect the love their spouse has for their family but encourage it, is in for a very sad life and will cause a lot of pain for a lot of other people.

Family is the foundation of life...family is important, and family is where your husbands and wives came from....my DIL lucked out big time when she married my son...he does EVERYTHING for her...is he easy to live with, probably not...nobody is...is he free from fault, no, no one is...did I make mistakes with her, in her mind I probably did, but I would like to know what things I did do, but the fact of the matter is....when you have a disagreement with someone you talk it out, IF you want to make it better...my DIL never did, she pretended to tolerate me, unless my son wasn't around, then she laid into me to let me know I was not welcome. I didn't get it...didn't understand what she was trying to do....and for 12 years I kept trying...12 years...

Maybe I was supposed to go thru this, b/c I tell you true, if this woman wasn't my son's wife, there is no way I'd be friends with her...I couldn't tollerate her behavior not to mention her lack of compassion for the feelings of others.

I came from a very close family...and have a lot of good friends, we were taught to respect each other, and not yell at each other...we were taught to thank people when they went out of they're way to buy us a gift or give us money, no matter if we liked it or not...our mother always told us, that person went out of they're way to do something nice for you, you need to either write them a thank you note, or call them and say thank you...

I have never ever seen this kind of thing before, nor did I know it existed...so if you have sons, you better pray to God above, that he chooses a woman who has goals, is secure and not looking to be taken care of and insecure...b/c it will hit you faster then a ton of bricks...you will not know what is happening to you.

I personally think, my DIL is a very unhappy person...she is only happy when she is putting new clothes on, she feels like somebody special....it's her drug....like many of us have....and it's a shame she really feels she cannot impress people in any other way, b/c I believe she has great potential....perhaps my one purpose in life is to forgive and keep on forgiving? I don't know?

these things unfortunately do happen and they do exist...just as sure as child abuse, family abuse, sexual abuse, alcohol and drug abuse...
and a great many lives are hurt by things like this, forever.

Parenting is a huge responsibility...and it doesn't come with a manual...but I swear to you, if they're is any dysfunction in a family, there is a huge chance the children will grow up with the same problems, gravitating towards someone how is abusive in some way...why, b/c they don't know any different...they watch they're mothers controlling their husbands, or husbands controlling their wives, and much verbal abuse...abandonment...is that love? No, then, how can that child give love, or even begin to know what love is...if they've never seen it?

I would also like to say, that there are many cases of children growing up in dysfunctional homes, who were lucky enough to get out...to have marvelous influences, and they are able to break the chains that bind...who realize they're parents are dysfunctional and cruel.

But, in a lot of cases let me just say, if the MIL is so bad...then your husbands must be real chores to live with...and I feel very sorry for you....

but, it is b/c of your MIL that your spouces are and she is the reason he is who he is....
No one is perfect...and without flaws....



I would like to keep this thread open for those who are having some kind of relationship problem with their inlaws....please feel free to come and vent....there are others out there in your same situation...who are going thru the same things...this problem runs a similar pattern....be it MIL or DIL, son in laws, or sister in laws....

And if you are and afraid to come forward, please know your not alone.

The hurt is real and your not crazy...it isn't you...and you have a right to feel as you do...

hugs
Creme

Last edited by cremebrulee; 11-30-2009 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:37 PM
 
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I think the biblical passage still applies today. I wonder if you would garner better insight by talking to a professional? Even in an abusive husband/wife scenario it does take two, because the abused partner has the choice to leave or seek help anyway they can. My husband is still an individual...he is not a carbon copy of his mother, although he shares some personality traits. I didn't marry his family.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:59 PM
 
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Can you imagine living someone else's idea of what YOUR life should be for the rest of your life?
Creme, I usually try not to step into your threads, but am curious. Isn't it possible that you are hurt and angry because your son and DIL have not followed the same belief system that you have? You have described what you believe marriage and family is in great detail. Perhaps they see it differently and this has ended up being a power struggle between you and them?

I can tell you from my own experiences with my 3 sons and DILs that they have their own way of doing things, and with different expectations. My first inclination of these differences came when my soon to be 1st DIL was asked about what pattern of dishes she liked. Her response was no formal dishes that couldn't be put in the dishwasher. She didn't want any of those "Hope Chest" items that my generation and those before me thought we needed. DILs # 2 & 3 also had their own ideas of what they wanted. And my sons were not far behind with their own ideas either. Their wives did not change them. They changed themselves in order to adapt to their new family. With that came new ideas and expectations. No longer the old traditions.

There definitely seems to be a rif between you and your DIL. But I can see a pattern in your thoughts and feelings, and am wondering if you just don't understand that your son and DIL do not wish to follow what you think is expected. Perhaps your personality projects strongly how you think things should be and they have become resistant to you. Maybe it's more drama than either wish to deal with, so they keep you at a distance.

I understand some of your dreams may be lost forever. Not all my dreams came true either. But we can't make our children live our dreams. This just doesn't seem to be about your DIL's shopping habits and the other things you mentioned. It seems deeper and more personal to me.

I encourage you to keep trying to understand. I hope one day you find a happy place you can all exist in. Maybe not perfect, but something that works.
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