Dating Someone That Was Sexually Abused (attractive, straight, feeling, different)
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Hmmm...I dunno, bro; based on your brief description of her personality and lovemaking habits I wouldn't be so sure she was a sexual abuse victim. In fact, two of her traits are actually at direct odds with ones that abuse victims would exhibit: her liking to give pleasure, but not to kiss. Most abuse victims fervently seek and prefer closeness and snuggling and kissing in lieu of the sex part; they're looking for an emotional bond and safe haven. So..when you factor in that, along with her emotional distance, it sounds more likely to me that she may have dabbled in prostitution--if indeed there was anything actually nefarious in her past. Hookers of famous for their aversion to kissing. And Lord knows they're job skills require being adept at giving pleasure. Re-think ome of her other beahaviors and see if this scenario fits better.
Again, you are generalizing about all sexual abuse survivors. It is more complex then that. Just like all alchoholics or drug addicts are not the same. And....most people have a lot of issues. I do not understand why this thread is assuming so much about us sexual abuse survivors. Being one myself, I can say that it has been a long and hard struggle to gain normalcy in life. I still have that as happening to me, but it is not me and I worked hard in therapy to get where I am today. No one is perfect, so if you do meet someone who has been sexually abused and they tell you, consider it a courageous act and try to be patient and understanding without judging so quickly.
Tough one! My ex-wife was molested as a child. This is one reason why I hate the SOBs who do this to children, cause I have seen the results and they last a lifetime. I sympathized with her all I could, but in the end it did us in. She had major issues with intimacy. I went through my 20s and 30s without having much sex and it just was not going to work any longer. There were other issues, but that was the main culprit that did us in.
I would not do it again, if I knew. People who are victims of this carry pain, sorrow and baggage with them for life. So sad, but so true.
So when we meet someone that has "issues" and we "let them into our lives" we have our own issues? THIS CRAP MAKES NO SENSE TO ME AT ALL.
Yes if one stays and tries to change them and fix them, that could be shown as "codependant" or it could ALSO be shown as "sympathetic" and "Caring" and "that you love the person and what to help them"!
a healthy person with healthy relationship skills knows the difference and puts it into practice. they are willing to look at and work on their own stuff, take responsibility for the relationships they create and the people they draw into their lives.
the unhealthy person with unhealthy relationship skills is generaly unwilling to look at and work on their own stuff, and resorts instead to immature behaviors such as name-calling, sarcasm, and using phrases like "psychobabble" and "this is crap"
My point is that if you meet someone AND FALL IN LOVE with them, and THEN you find out they were abused, have an addiction, etc. Why would you just leave or end it? Notice the CAPS. If you really love them you will not do that, you will do the opposite. I feel it is your job to stay and try to help them. THEN if they do not accept your help or fight you "trying to help them"-THEN LEAVE. As you cannot change or fix someone.
NOW if you find out all this stuff BEFORE you fall in love or really care for this person. Then I agree, it is best you just WALK. Why put yourself through all the turmoil?
I hate to say it but this thread hit home with me. My ex was abused as a child and is a severe Nicotine addict. Since I really cared and loved her, I gave it a go. And when she (time and time again) showed that she did not want help or to even help herself. I was gone. She is kind of a trainwreck. So it is best I just move on. But I did love her a lot and I tried... boy did I try.
My ex was abused as a child and is a severe Nicotine addict. Since I really cared and loved her, I gave it a go. And when she (time and time again) showed that she did not want help or to even help herself. I was gone. She is kind of a trainwreck. So it is best I just move on. But I did love her a lot and I tried... boy did I try.
but did you get help for yourself?
healthy behavior is getting help for yourself, not to "try to help them"
and until a person gets help for themself, and changes how they do relationship, the same pattern just keeps repeating over and over and over
if i keep attracting addicts into my life, it's not about "their" addictions, it's about my co-dependence. Until i work on my co-dependence and get healthy myself, nothing changes. when i'm focused on them i stay sick. when i focus on me i live a healthy life.
it's not about "them" out there
it is about "us" working on ourselves
Victims of sexual abuse can often be self-destructive and have trust issues.
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Originally Posted by max's mama
Some of them feel they are not worthy of receiving a pleasure.
These statements definitely describe the person I dated. She had a self-admitted tendency to ruin her relationships and she had trust issues. On more than one occasion, she said she didn't deserve to be happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artsywoman
I find some of these posts offensive. As an incest survivor, I have spent years recovering and actually living a relatively normal life. I do not feel it is fair to say that a woman or man who has been sexually abused is a liablility in a relationship. It depends on what the various issues are and how they are addressed, in addition to getting help thru counseling etc for the issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artsywoman
Again, you are generalizing about all sexual abuse survivors. It is more complex then that. Just like all alchoholics or drug addicts are not the same. And....most people have a lot of issues. I do not understand why this thread is assuming so much about us sexual abuse survivors.
When I started this thread, I knew there would be some generalizations, but I was hoping there wouldn't be judgments. I don't believe in making broad statements about sexual abuse victims. What I wanted was to try to gain insight in how they might think or behave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
a healthy person with healthy relationship skills knows the difference and puts it into practice. they are willing to look at and work on their own stuff, take responsibility for the relationships they create and the people they draw into their lives.
the unhealthy person with unhealthy relationship skills is generaly unwilling to look at and work on their own stuff, and resorts instead to immature behaviors such as name-calling, sarcasm, and using phrases like "psychobabble" and "this is crap"
There's nothing immature in calling out someone for their ridiculous statements. You keep saying that a person is responsible for the people they draw into their lives. But I'll ask again how is a person who was abused by a relative guilty of drawing that person in? Your problem is your not even addressing the subject of this thread but rather using it to promote a more general attitude towards relationships. Taking responsibility for one's relationship failures is something we can all agree on. But that's not the issue here. This thread is about understanding how a traumatic event might impact one's ability to form meaningful bonds with another person and how it might influence their behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
healthy behavior is getting help for yourself, not to "try to help them" and until a person gets help for themself, and changes how they do relationship, the same pattern just keeps repeating over and over and over
if i keep attracting addicts into my life, it's not about "their" addictions, it's about my co-dependence. Until i work on my co-dependence and get healthy myself, nothing changes. when i'm focused on them i stay sick. when i focus on me i live a healthy life.
Why do you assume the person hasn't sought help already? The person I mentioned in my original post may or may not have been the victim of sexual abuse. But if she had been, I'm pretty sure she got help. You keep saying that it's unhealthy to try to help another human. I find that offensive. Since when is showing compassion for another person unhealthy? For all your talk about how a person needs to take personal responsibility,what you fail to grasp is that they may reach out to you for that help. Then what? Will you turn them away saying, "it's your problem, not mine"?
Last edited by mrstewart; 02-22-2010 at 08:05 PM..
You keep saying that it's unhealthy to try to help another human. I find that offensive. Since when is showing compassion for another person unhealthy? For all your talk about how a person needs to take personal responsibility,what you fail to grasp is that they may reach out to you for that help. Then what? Will you turn them away saying, "it's your problem, not mine"?
people with healthy relationship skills can distinguish and put into practice the difference between compassion versus caretaking; between love versus enabling; between taking responsibility for yourself versus trying to fix, change or "help" someone else. People with healthy relationship skills know that trying to "rescue" people is detrimental to the relationship, not helpful in any way shape or form.
a good rule of thumb is if someone points out a behavior may be co-dependent, watch your reaction. Is your internal response defensive, angry, upset, critical, judgmental, irritated, argumentative, sarcastic, attacking? Or is it "hmmm.....that's not the first time someone's suggested my behavior is co-dependent, maybe that's something for me to explore and look into further and educate myself about"
The person I dated didn't come across as a trainwreck (although people are pretty good at concealing what's going on underneath). She seemed to be functional and not lacking in confidence. She had no trouble making friends, dealing with coworkers or customers, etc. A lot of people complain about having a hard time meeting people. That was never an issue for her. But once in a relationship, she seemed to have a hard time letting anyone in emotionally, which I think is why none of her relationships lasted very long. I sometimes wondered if that was a defense mechanism to keep from getting hurt. And maybe separating sex from emotion was the product of being abused as a child. I never discussed the subject with her and she showed no sign of wanting to. That made it hard to help her.
Denny, the more you post, the more I like you. It absolutely is a defense mechanism. You see, survivors of abuse have learned to not trust - after all, the person in life who was supposed to be our caregiver, protector, responsible for our very being alive let us down - killed the inner core of our selves - our childhood. It takes a lot of time to rebuild the ability to trust which is what it takes to "let someone in".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max's mama
My heart always goes out to people who had to deal with this, especially in a young age. These people will always have a permanent scar in their heart because of the abuse and it takes a lot of therapy, meditation, self-healing, spirituality to overcome something like that. Learning how to love yourself is important as many of them lack the feeling of self-worthiness.
One thing I have to say that it takes a very special person and a very strong bond and love to be able to have a healthy relationship with victims of sexual abuse. It takes patience, support, love, understanding and quite often it's just too much. Definitely not for everyone. Victims of sexual abuse can often be self-destructive and have trust issues...If one finds himself/herself in a relationship with those type of people, they need to ask themselves if they will be able to improve those people's lives and how they contribute in a positive way. If you can't handle it, don't do it.
Victims of sexual abuse are not in any way damaged goods. So many of them have deeper insights in what it's like to improve your life after being a traumatic experience. I shutter just thinking that something so terrible can happen to my child (G-d forbid!) and I have great respect for those who are able to lead normal lives afterwards, get married, have children and enjoy their lives.
Thank you.
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Originally posted by DennyCrane
These statements definitely describe the person I dated. She had a self-admitted tendency to ruin her relationships and she had trust issues. On more than one occasion, she said she didn't deserve to be happy.
When I started this thread, I knew there would be some generalizations, but I was hoping there wouldn't be judgments. I don't believe in making broad statements about sexual abuse victims. What I wanted was to try to gain insight in how they might think or behave.
This thread is about understanding how a traumatic event might impact one's ability to form meaningful bonds with another person and how it might influence their behavior.
....Why do you assume the person hasn't sought help already? The person I mentioned in my original post may or may not have been the victim of sexual abuse. But if she had been, I'm pretty sure she got help. You keep saying that it's unhealthy to try to help another human. I find that offensive. Since when is showing compassion for another person unhealthy? For all your talk about how a person needs to take personal responsibility,what you fail to grasp is that they may reach out to you for that help. Then what? Will you turn them away saying, "it's your problem, not mine"?[/quote]
Denny, you are a kind soul.
There actually are stages in recovery from CSA - Victim is only the first stage. It is when the abuse is occuring - and can last into adulthood. Denial is very common and can last into mid-life. The sooner one moves out of this stage, the easier the remainder of the recovery. But this is dependent upon having a good support system. Something that is rare in incest situations.
Depending on how long the abuse lasted and how long the denial stage lasted, one often has to go through a re-living stage, to allow the emotions which were initially blocked - and kept locked away for so long - to be purged - it can take years or just a few weeks depending on the length of time - between occurence and the end of denial or the length of time of the abuse occurred - and the quality of the support system available.
Survivor is not a true recovery stage, because if a person lives through the abuse, they have survived. But it can often be considered a stage of recovery. It is when the person moves from being a victim - in their own mind, in their dealings with others (not the primary abuser), and generally in life. When the victim personality begins to no longer accept being a victim. Some people with a strong support system or who were abused later in life are able to move into the active survivor stage quickly.
Thriver is the stage at which the person is not just surviving, but is living a happy, mentally healthy life - often with a solid relationship.
I speak as a thriver - and as someone who spent many years in study with a focus towards becoming a specialist working with CSA victim/survivors (before I lost my hearing). During that time of study, I spent many hours as a paraprofessional working with those in recovery.
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Last edited by mrstewart; 02-24-2010 at 11:20 AM..
people with healthy relationship skills can distinguish and put into practice the difference between compassion versus caretaking; between love versus enabling; between taking responsibility for yourself versus trying to fix, change or "help" someone else. People with healthy relationship skills know that trying to "rescue" people is detrimental to the relationship, not helpful in any way shape or form.
a good rule of thumb is if someone points out a behavior may be co-dependent, watch your reaction. Is your internal response defensive, angry, upset, critical, judgmental, irritated, argumentative, sarcastic, attacking? Or is it "hmmm.....that's not the first time someone's suggested my behavior is co-dependent, maybe that's something for me to explore and look into further and educate myself about"
Judging by your posts in this thread, you're not able to draw that distinction. I started this thread to ask people if they had any insight into the mind of someone who's been sexually abused. Rather than address that specific point, you sought to turn this thread into a more general discussion of love vs. enabling. What exactly in my original post suggested enabling behavior? Is wanting to simply understand someone else's trauma enabling?
Again, you are generalizing about all sexual abuse survivors. It is more complex then that. Just like all alchoholics or drug addicts are not the same. And....most people have a lot of issues. I do not understand why this thread is assuming so much about us sexual abuse survivors. Being one myself, I can say that it has been a long and hard struggle to gain normalcy in life. I still have that as happening to me, but it is not me and I worked hard in therapy to get where I am today. No one is perfect, so if you do meet someone who has been sexually abused and they tell you, consider it a courageous act and try to be patient and understanding without judging so quickly.
You're missing the point of the OP: it was never confirmed that the woman in question is in fact an incest survivior. The Op was merely wondering if she might have been. Therefore, nothing was confirmed and I wasn't stereotyping anyone. Just citing some common personality traits, is all. As far as your mnetioning of alcoholics: I'm a recovering drunk with almost six years' sobriety--and this is while being in the music biz! lol--so, if I may be so bold in saying so, I reckon I know a thing or two about a thing or two when it comes to addictions and dysfunction.
BTW--are you and ArtsyGuy really the same person? I ask this because I you guys both shoot from the same ultra-lib, touchy-feely hip, and since I figured he was gay, I just thought that he might use the ArtsyWoman screen name on those nights he was feeling particularly ferminine.
Just wondering.
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