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Well to elaborate and provide a little more input. She comes over here, not often, periodically, and no not necessarily *invited*. It isn't that kind of household.
One thing in particular that has been a bone of contention and I am telling the gospel, honest truth. She intends to get a tattoo shortly. I have said not one word. I don't care for tattoo's. They just are not appealing to me. I have not said a word. It's her body, she's an adult, she can do as she pleases. I don't like it, but it's not up to me to like it or lump it, and I realize that, thus I shut my mouth and provide no input on the discussion as she peruses choices for tats. But my lack of input, I guess is glaring enough. I don't add any input on the topic, either way. On purpose. She then goads me. With taunts, of why don't I like her idea for a tattoo. I say to her "well that's fine, if that's what you want". She then mocks, "she doesn't like it, she doesn't want me to get a tattoo, she doesn't like em". I answer "no I don't, you know that, but do what you want, your body". She then taunts more.
That's one instance, that has occured on more than one occasion. I stay out of it, on purpose. Because it's not my business. Not my money to pay for it, not my body, she's an adult, can make her own decisions. And so why I have to be provoked and goaded about it, I don't know.
Let's see. Another instance. She had stated that she'd be coming by here to drop something off, on a specific evening. She never did come. Never called. Couldn't reach her on her phone (which is nothing unusual, she despises the phone and rarely answers it, for ANYONE, not just me). Couldn't reach her all evening, she never came by, never called. I was worried about her, did she get mugged in a parking lot somewhere, what? I dunno. Her husband was out of town, so I had no way of knowing if she was accounted for. She just was absent, no phone call, nothing. Typically I could, if she pulled that, just check with her dh, but he was out of town.
Inconsiderate, and rude. I wouldn't do that to someone. I would at least phone and let the person who is expecting me know, that I've come across a problem of some sort and won't be coming by. She knows better, I raised her. She was taught better.
I talked to her the next a.m. briefly to let her know that some plan that had been in place for another item on the agenda had fallen thru. I called her specifically for that reason. To give her a heads up, (the item, not important). Suffice it to say there had been something on the agenda upcoming that had fallen thru, and I was giving her a heads up on it. She responded with a quick, snippy *okay bye*, and hung up. No questions as to whether the item in question has been rescheduled, or further dialogue, just a quick *okay bye*. And she was gone. I tried to call her back, and got no answer (see above, never answers her phone). Tried a few times during the day (there was further info on the issue, that I hadn't been given the lattitude to express by her kurt hang up). Never could reach her.
I finally left a message with her husband to have her call me. She did, finally.
Once I got her on the phone I querried her about the night before when she had said she'd be by here and never arrived, never called, was not accessible to be reached. I asked her about the kurt hang up,
I got hung up on. She asked me if I had called to (her words) *chew her arpse*. I responded that no I hadn't, but that I had been concerned the night before when she didn't call, didn't come by, that maybe a phone call to let me know she wasn't coming. When I said to her that I had more info for her on the item that had fallen thru, that she had hung up on me, and I hadn't been able to further explain, that maybe if she's busy if I've caught her at a bad time, a better response would be *hey mom I'm busy can I call you back*. To that I got "did you call me to chew my arpse?". I responded "no am I chewing your ...........?". To that it was a hang up. She hung up. That was it.
This after last night, she and her dh were invited to dinner, and the dh is the only one that could be reached (invited here by her sister who was cooking dinner here). The dh accepted the invitation on their behalf. Was told what time dinner would be served. They never showed up. Either of them, never called. The dh did come by very briefly to just visit with my dh, just for a moment or two. Their plates had been left covered for them. He left without them.
These are just a few snippets of examples over just the last few days. It would take a whole novel to write down all the examples there are. These are just a few, over just the last few days.
Based on what you've said here, I think there's more to your life story that caused the negative dynamics between yourself and the daughter. AGain, there are two sides of the story, and it's apparent when your older daughter responded w/ short questions, by asking "are you calling to chew me out?", etc.
Look, I'm not saying that you are a bad mother -- most likely you're a very nurturing, caring mother. However, most parents do NOT grasp the idea that once their children became grown adults, the dynamics will change. In essence, anything that your daughter used to tolerate when she lived w/ you at home, now she won't. Her ways, though very rude, of dealing w/ you, are telling me that she's tired of being treated like a child. She must be resenting for something, or a lot of things, that you have done for her previously when she had moved out on her own.
My advice to you? Since you can't get through her, have someone else talk to her and ask her why she's being this way to you -- someone that she can trust and that will not judge her for how she thinks/ feels about you as a mother right now. This may not be a simple answer coming from your daughter, and get ready to hear some disheartening truth about why your daughter has been negatively feeling this way about you. If you want your relationship w/ your daughter to change/ improve, you WILL listen to her.
I have a pretty good relationship with my daughter, but my sister is another story. She has always, even as a toddler, been very self-centered, bitter, and disagreeable. She blames everything that did or did not happen to her on my mother and it's all HUGE in her mind. For instance, she endlessly recounts a story of not getting as much milk in her cup at dinner as the rest of the kids as just one more piece of evidence of how she was mistreated by my mom. My sister is 45 years old and has five kids of her own, so she did not grow out of it. Like you, my mom and the whole family learned to walk on eggshells around her because we never knew when she'd lash out about some perceived injustice she was on the receiving end of. She has called my mother and I nasty names and was even caught stealing money from my mother's wallet and that was after she was married and a mother herself. About 10 years ago, it finally occurred to me that this is how she is - period. The score will never been evened in her mind. She will never be vindicated for all that she believes we owe her. I honestly think she thrives on all the drama and trouble she stirs up in the family. I can't tell you how many times I've seen her ruin a holiday or someone else's special day like a b-day party or graduation and then sit back with a little smirk on her face while she watches it all fall apart. I also realized that if we weren't related, we wouldn't even be friends. If she was a co-worker or neighbor of mine, I would have nothing to do with her. She is abusive ... plain and simple. The only way we have been able to deal with it as a family is to refuse to take it. In my case, that means I haven't had contact with her for nearly 10 years, but I'm a much happier person for it. I do not miss her. I do not miss all the trouble and the drama and being hung up on when her nose gets out of joint. My mother also doesn't talk to her much, but when she does, if my sister even tries to be nasty, my mom just says, "Gotta go. I'll call you later" and then she hangs up. Can't play those games when no one is willing to play them with you.
It's very tough when you have a toxic family member who does not want peace and harmony in the family, but they are not worth developing high blood pressure or an ulcer over.
One thing in particular that has been a bone of contention and I am telling the gospel, honest truth. She intends to get a tattoo shortly. I have said not one word. I don't care for tattoo's. They just are not appealing to me. I have not said a word. It's her body, she's an adult, she can do as she pleases. I don't like it, but it's not up to me to like it or lump it, and I realize that, thus I shut my mouth and provide no input on the discussion as she peruses choices for tats. But my lack of input, I guess is glaring enough. I don't add any input on the topic, either way. On purpose. She then goads me. With taunts, of why don't I like her idea for a tattoo. I say to her "well that's fine, if that's what you want". She then mocks, "she doesn't like it, she doesn't want me to get a tattoo, she doesn't like em". I answer "no I don't, you know that, but do what you want, your body". She then taunts more....
Tried a few times during the day (there was further info on the issue, that I hadn't been given the lattitude to express by her kurt hang up). Never could reach her.
I finally left a message with her husband to have her call me. She did, finally.
now your daughter certainly sounds rude and hostile but...
I know you don't like tattoos but would it have killed you to fain some interest? I mean getting a tattoo isn't some horrible thing even if you don't personally like it. A little more positive reaction and asking what she was going to get could have made a difference.
Far as the calling. Call once then leave a message and be done with it. Call several times, call her husband etc is annoying and puts her on the defensive when she finally does call you back.
As to the notion of leave a message and call once. She doesn't utilize voice mail on her cell phone (only means of communication). She so detests the phone, that she purposely doesn't want voice mail. Doesn't want the obligation of having to call someone back. She simply keeps her phone turned off. You call, you just get, "the cell phone customer you are trying to reach is unavailable, please try your call later". She proudly announces that she never checks her voice mail. She's deactivated that feature, so as to not have to bothered with returning phone calls. And more often than not, the cell phone is in an off position, and can't even get thru. So as to the notion that I might be hounding her mercilessly. Not so. Can't even get thru. I call her husband, because it's, in the end, the only hope of getting word to her
As to whether or not I am calling her repeatedly with worries of her being run over by a bus or some other such. I typically go days without calling her. I only call her when there is a point in doing so. Didn't used to be like this. We used to enjoy one another's company. Go shopping, go to lunch, etc. I don't know what has changed. But that isn't the case any longer. She's like someone described above, of their sister. If this weren't someone I was related to, I don't know that I would seek out her presence. She isn't very pleasant. She is harsh/mean/rough around the edges. Her little sister agrees, readily, as she meets the older sister's wrath far too frequently. The older sister to this sister, states that she can only take her in small doses, precisely because of her harsh nature. Like someone else described, you feel you have to walk on eggshells, so as to not spark an issue of some sort.
And as to whether I have asked her if everything is alright. I have, she says that yes, everything is fine. She obviously doesn't care to discuss whatever it is that might be on her mind. She used to be a sweet natured person. She isn't any more. But the problem is that me, her mother, I seem to be consistently, on the other end of her wrath. By simply phoning her to tell her that her sister wouldn't be coming. By asking her if maybe she could've called when she had stated she'd be by, yet never showed up, never called. Asking if maybe she could've just let us know that she wasn't coming. I get asked if I am calling to chew her out, and promptly hung up on.
This harsh nature, it gets exhibited here. I don't seek her out. I don't go to her place, unless invited to do so. She comes over here, periodically, as I stated, not necessarily invited. It's not that kinda relationship where she has to be summoned to come over. She might just pop in, see what's for dinner, etc. But the harsh nature, the hard around the edges, the walking on eggshells, that all occurs here. It isn't that we (or me) are in her space, in her face, all the time. Not at all. And she doesn't come over here all that much. Maybe a couple of times a week.
I like the idea of being not so available. Maybe that will work some. But as I stated this toxic behavior gets exhibited here, in this home. She doesn't live here anymore, but she does stop in from time to time. I don't know, ........... what?, ......... not let her in, so as she can be here to hurl the hateful attitude around? Don't let her in?
As to the notion of leave a message and call once. She doesn't utilize voice mail on her cell phone (only means of communication). She so detests the phone, that she purposely doesn't want voice mail. Doesn't want the obligation of having to call someone back. She simply keeps her phone turned off. You call, you just get, "the cell phone customer you are trying to reach is unavailable, please try your call later". She proudly announces that she never checks her voice mail. She's deactivated that feature, so as to not have to bothered with returning phone calls. And more often than not, the cell phone is in an off position, and can't even get thru. So as to the notion that I might be hounding her mercilessly. Not so. Can't even get thru. I call her husband, because it's, in the end, the only hope of getting word to her
I like the idea of being not so available. Maybe that will work some. But as I stated this toxic behavior gets exhibited here, in this home. She doesn't live here anymore, but she does stop in from time to time. I don't know, ........... what?, ......... not let her in, so as she can be here to hurl the hateful attitude around? Don't let her in?
YES! What if she were a neighbor who came over and acted that way in your house? Would you constantly keep letting her in? No, of course not. If she can't behave herself as a guest in your house, you have every right to limit her visits. When she drops by unannounced, let her know you were just on your way out or you're expecting company or you're not feeling well or whatever. Suggest she call first next time so she doesn't waste a trip. You are going to have to learn to set some boundaries with her. No, it's not going to be easy and as a mother, it's not going to be fun, but she is a big girl now and if she has some issues with you and/or her childhood, she needs to deal with them as a mature adult. That means seeking counseling and talking honestly and openly with you instead of acting like a bratty kid. Maybe you should even seek counseling for yourself to help you set those boundaries. It's not an easy thing to do on your own, especially when the person you're trying to set boundaries against catches on and begins to do everything in their power to sabotage you.
As for all of this phone business, if she goes to those lengths to not be available by telephone, I wouldn't bother beyond one initial call. My brother is like that. He doesn't like the phone or returning phone calls, but he's not rude about it. I can only think of a few times when I really really REALLY had to talk to him. Other than that, if I leave him a message about a family BBQ or our mother coming to town or to cancel some plans we had and he doesn't call me back ... oh well. I'm not going to track him down. He is a grown man. He knows the purpose of a phone and how phone calls work. By choosing not to turn on her phone or check her voice mail, your daughter is choosing to accept the risk that she may miss out on some important calls. As a grown up, it's her right to make that choice and if she yells and screams about it later, it's your right not to listen.
As to the notion of leave a message and call once. She doesn't utilize voice mail on her cell phone (only means of communication). She so detests the phone, that she purposely doesn't want voice mail. Doesn't want the obligation of having to call someone back. She simply keeps her phone turned off. You call, you just get, "the cell phone customer you are trying to reach is unavailable, please try your call later". She proudly announces that she never checks her voice mail. She's deactivated that feature, so as to not have to bothered with returning phone calls. And more often than not, the cell phone is in an off position, and can't even get thru. So as to the notion that I might be hounding her mercilessly. Not so. Can't even get thru. I call her husband, because it's, in the end, the only hope of getting word to her
As to whether or not I am calling her repeatedly with worries of her being run over by a bus or some other such. I typically go days without calling her. I only call her when there is a point in doing so. Didn't used to be like this. We used to enjoy one another's company. Go shopping, go to lunch, etc. I don't know what has changed. But that isn't the case any longer. She's like someone described above, of their sister. If this weren't someone I was related to, I don't know that I would seek out her presence. She isn't very pleasant. She is harsh/mean/rough around the edges. Her little sister agrees, readily, as she meets the older sister's wrath far too frequently. The older sister to this sister, states that she can only take her in small doses, precisely because of her harsh nature. Like someone else described, you feel you have to walk on eggshells, so as to not spark an issue of some sort.
And as to whether I have asked her if everything is alright. I have, she says that yes, everything is fine. She obviously doesn't care to discuss whatever it is that might be on her mind. She used to be a sweet natured person. She isn't any more. But the problem is that me, her mother, I seem to be consistently, on the other end of her wrath. By simply phoning her to tell her that her sister wouldn't be coming. By asking her if maybe she could've called when she had stated she'd be by, yet never showed up, never called. Asking if maybe she could've just let us know that she wasn't coming. I get asked if I am calling to chew her out, and promptly hung up on.
This harsh nature, it gets exhibited here. I don't seek her out. I don't go to her place, unless invited to do so. She comes over here, periodically, as I stated, not necessarily invited. It's not that kinda relationship where she has to be summoned to come over. She might just pop in, see what's for dinner, etc. But the harsh nature, the hard around the edges, the walking on eggshells, that all occurs here. It isn't that we (or me) are in her space, in her face, all the time. Not at all. And she doesn't come over here all that much. Maybe a couple of times a week.
I like the idea of being not so available. Maybe that will work some. But as I stated this toxic behavior gets exhibited here, in this home. She doesn't live here anymore, but she does stop in from time to time. I don't know, ........... what?, ......... not let her in, so as she can be here to hurl the hateful attitude around? Don't let her in?
No, you calmly say, "Gee I wish you had called, I have to pick up some sour cream." Can I get back to ya"?
Then go buy an ice cream, remember if you have other children they are watching you be somewhat of a doormat. Monkey see Monkey do.. good luck.
Is it just me who is drowning in the amount of detail? In the incessant calling and calling back after people hung up on you? In dwelling on who called whom and who didn't and why?
I'm a bit out of air just reading this... Why would I as a mother be obsessing of reasons of my married daughter's actions?
NNYL, It sounds like you could be talking about me. Are you sure you are not my mom!?
Here is my perspective, coming from a daughter's point of view. My mother loves to think of herself as a loving nurturing mother who made outrageous sacrifices for her kids. She has told me she is at a loss for what she could have done to make me treat her the way I do.
The fact is that she did not have a nurturing mother and was not particularly nurturing to me growing up.
Since I am now a married mother in my mid-thirties, I have made a concious effort to not allow my mother to interfere with my family business. I have been told that I am short, snipppy and that she has to walk on eggshells around me. This is all true. I cannot be around her longer than about 10 minutes without reaching my limit.
But what she is failing to realize is that this is exactly how she was with her own mother and how she was with me growing up. As a teenager she gave the impression that I was not who she wanted me to be. I have NO good memories of my teenage years. My childhood memories are all overshadowed by bad things.
In observing her and thinking in hindsight, I have come to the conclusion that she is a VERY jealous woman and seems to even be envious of my successful marriage (hers failed). Since I am an adult, I have made the consious choice to NOT be around someone who is overly critical of me and others with her snobbish, snide remarks.
I also do not call her. She calls me. I like it that way. I screen my calls because I usually do not want to speak to someone who is going to bring me down and hassle me.
Her latest thing is laying a guilt trip about not seeing her grandchildren enough. I think once every 2-3 months is sufficient.
NNYL, is it possible that she is holding on to something from her childhood? Were you overly critical of her in the past? Did you compare her to others or give others praise while simultaneously putting her down? You did not mention her age. I found that once I hit my thirties, I was able to more firmly stand on my own feet and confidently assert who I was and what I wasn't willing to take any longer.
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