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Old 12-15-2009, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,990 posts, read 5,371,714 times
Reputation: 19164

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
You know most guys learn throwing a hissy fit is not that effective for getting sex and only leaves a woman mad.

Most of us long term married guys find begging and whining much more effective. If all else fails we usually bribe them with a new pair of shoes from Nordstrom's which always seems to work.

I had to convert half of our spare bedroom for my wifes shoe closet. That is true consideration.

Hehe.....MY husband could bribe me with a new band saw! But then of course, we'd both benfit, wouldn't we? Well, if he was so inclined, I suppose he could wear my new shoes, too....but we don't work that way. You're far more likely to find me in HIS shoes.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:13 AM
 
7,483 posts, read 8,408,006 times
Reputation: 6275
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Of course you can compromise on sex...unless one is injured or unable to have sex, a compromise can certainly be made.
How do compromise when one person wants to have sex and the other doesn't? Is the person who doesn't want to have it supposed to do it anyway? If you think that, then you must not have any respect for your partner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Free will is so simple that you have apparently overlooked its universal application yourself...You yourself cant even explain your double standard. Free will isnt symetric, it is universal.
The only person applying a double standard here is you. Your partner doesn't want to have sex with you and yet, instead of acknowledging that she has free will and should be allowed to forgo doing something she doesn't want to do, you instead frame it in terms of you, as if you're being denied something you feel entitled to. And the example you gave earlier about how not having sex is equivalent to having sex shows you think free will is symmetric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
And the act of doing nothing IS doing something. Either way a decision is made not to consider a partner's desires.
This is an incredibly selfish statement. So your partner decides she's not in the mood for sex. Instead of asking why she doesn't want to have sex with you, your focus is on how your needs are not being met. What a self-centered way to look at things. So if my partner doesn't want to go out to dinner tonight, I should view that as her not considering my desires? And you accuse me of being a manchild. Unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Im just saying that you speak on behalf of women...you may speak on behalf of men also at times for all I know..but in this instance you are arguing from the perspective of a woman. Which is fine by me..Im just offering a counter argument.
No, actually I'm speaking on behalf of people in general. The standards I've been discussing apply to men AND women. If you weren't in the mood for sex, your partner should respect that, not throw a temper tantrum or whine about how her needs aren't being met. A caring partner would respect their partner's desires or lack thereof. If I come home after a long day at work, I'm tired, hungry and in a lousy mood and tell my partner I'm not up for sex, I expect her to understand, not make me feel like a lousy partner or complain about how her needs aren't being met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Unfortunately you were likely the victim of our society's use of what should be a male's ego, as a weapon against you.

You as a male, are supposed to want sex at all times, and your ego should in always be tied to your eternal pursuit of sex. This is your social role. If you in anyway go against this social doctrine, then what is supposed to be your male ego, must be used against you to convince you that you have not fulfilled your duty in this society.

It is a dual edged sword, and a trap that many men fall into. Most men have been taught that their egos live by their sexual prowess and die by it. That ego often nets them many partners, but as you stated in your story, at whatever time you are able to disconnect your own self worth from that sexual prowess you will likely be chastised by both men and women in society...and certainly so by your significant other.
Any man who lets society or his partner dictate what kind of man he should be has no one but himself to blame if things don't turn out well. So what if society expects me to want sex all the time. If I'm not in the mood, then I'm not in the mood. I don't let society or my partner imply that makes me less of a man. And if you have a partner who does this, then you're obviously with the wrong partner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
If we really pay attention to our mates...they tell us what we want...It may be as simple as vacuuming the floor without having to be asked...washing the dishes and cleaning the kitchen, if that's normally something she's stuck doing. Wives...baking his favorite cookies, his favorite meals, running him a bath and laying out his lounge pants and t-shirt, etc. Pamper each other....Never forget to say, "I love you" when you leave, when they leave, when you hang up the phone....sometimes, it's just the littlest things.....
This is an excellent point. It's usually the little things that we appreciate. If I forget to pick up my dry cleaning and my partner gets it for me without asking, then I feel pretty lucky to have a partner like that and I make sure she knows how much I appreciate her going to the trouble. But some people take such gestures for granted. It's a lousy feeling to feel taken for granted by your partner. Maybe that's one reason why so many people have lousy sex lives. It's not because the sex is necessarily bad. But when you feel taken for granted by your partner, it's pretty hard to get excited about having sex with them. If you follow the line of reasoning put forth by solytaire, then sex is something each person should always expect from the other. The problem with that is if your partner expects sex from you because you're their partner and doesn't really try to seduce you or turn you on, then you feel taken for granted. I like sex as much as the next guy. But it's awfully hard to get excited about it when you think your partner doesn't really appreciate you or just assumes you'll always be around whenever they're in the mood for sex.

Last edited by DennyCrane; 12-15-2009 at 10:44 AM..
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: southern california
49,942 posts, read 47,049,712 times
Reputation: 41243
per OP
i am concerned about high divorce, stats say 3 out of 4 divorces filed by women. most women i have spoken to, told me they did it bek they were hurt or he was a toad/monster. if men behaved well then divorce would be 75% lower? he started out right, why would a charming handsome prince boyfriend and SO, a real honey, makes such an odious toad of a husband ? on a personal note if given the choice as to being perceived as a handsome prince or an odious toad i would much rather be a handsome prince.


Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 12-15-2009 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:35 AM
 
7,483 posts, read 8,408,006 times
Reputation: 6275
A big reason why more divorces are filed by women is because of a belief among many men that divorce law is slanted towards men. Now, before someone attacks me, let me state that I don't personally think divorce law is slanted towards one gender or the other. But most men I know, including a few who are lawyers, are convinced that they'll end up being the big loser in a divorce. So that might explain why fewer men file. Again, I'm not saying all or even most divorces end up with the wife being the big winner. But if men are convinced they'll lose, then I bet a lot of them will gladly stay in an unhappy marriage. I've never been through a divorce, but I would hazard to guess there's only one real winner. The lawyers.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
11,291 posts, read 11,233,238 times
Reputation: 11382
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
A big reason why more divorces are filed by women is because of a belief among many men that divorce law is slanted towards men. Now, before someone attacks me, let me state that I don't personally think divorce law is slanted towards one gender or the other. But most men I know, including a few who are lawyers, are convinced that they'll end up being the big loser in a divorce. So that might explain why fewer men file. Again, I'm not saying all or even most divorces end up with the wife being the big winner. But if men are convinced they'll lose, then I bet a lot of them will gladly stay in an unhappy marriage. I've never been through a divorce, but I would hazard to guess there's only one real winner. The lawyers.
Youve got that right!

I still dont know why the average man in the averae marriage is convienced he is going to get screwed if he files.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:49 AM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
18,472 posts, read 17,191,948 times
Reputation: 17457
Denny good post and pretty much right on. I would like to add that women are quicker to draw the line on acceptable behavior then many men. A womans indiscretions or bad behavior has to be totally outrageous for many men to file.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:10 AM
 
30,518 posts, read 18,829,626 times
Reputation: 14929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpol76 View Post
Much much more often than men? I read a stat that women file around 70 percent of the time!!! Why is this?
In the interests of efficiency I have produce this form response for people to cut and paste with.

Because <insert gender here> are all <insert blanket derogatory comment here>. My ex <insert gender here> was a horrible person and they <insert list of horrible things here>. Then I started dating again and all <insert gender here> are <insert blanket derogatory comment here>. Never use <insert dating website name>!!!!!

But thankfully I'm not jaded or bitter.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
 
7,483 posts, read 8,408,006 times
Reputation: 6275
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
I still dont know why the average man in the averae marriage is convienced he is going to get screwed if he files.
The average guy has more male friends than female. So whatever divorce stories he hears are more often going to be told from a male perspective. On top of that, he's more likely to hear about the bad experiences. After all, who's more likely to tell everyone about his divorce, the guy who got a fair deal or the guy who got screwed? Further, the horror stories he hears will sometimes be exaggerated and the person telling the story may omit certain details that suggest they share any responsibility for the marriage ending. This is the same phenomenon you observe whenever you talk about online dating. For a lot of people, it's easier to believe the horror stories than to collect empirical data.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:13 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 3,436,805 times
Reputation: 1774
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
How do compromise when one person wants to have sex and the other doesn't? Is the person who doesn't want to have it supposed to do it anyway? If you think that, then you must not have any respect for your partner.

If you think that couples dont compromise for one another you are naive. If one person doesnt want to have sex and the other does, then one of them compromises their desires.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
The only person applying a double standard here is you. Your partner doesn't want to have sex with you and yet, instead of acknowledging that she has free will and should be allowed to forgo doing something she doesn't want to do, you instead frame it in terms of you, as if you're being denied something you feel entitled to. And the example you gave earlier about how not having sex is equivalent to having sex shows you think free will is symmetric.
Im the one who stated to you that free will is universal..meaning everyone has free will..you are the one who stated that free will should only be unilateral.. You have only excused the exercise of free will when making excuses for why one partner can withhold sex. You have yet to explain how a person who is selfish in bed, isnt also exercising free will. Furthermore, if a partner denies his or her spouse sex, they ARE denying something their partner is entitled to. If they dont want to be the sexual partner for their spouse, then why marry? Th



Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
This is an incredibly selfish statement. So your partner decides she's not in the mood for sex. Instead of asking why she doesn't want to have sex with you, your focus is on how your needs are not being met. What a self-centered way to look at things. So if my partner doesn't want to go out to dinner tonight, I should view that as her not considering my desires? And you accuse me of being a manchild. Unbelievable.

And yet you cant disprove it? No wonder you find it unbelievable. My focus is on OUR needs, which in a relationship, my needs are a part of. A relationship will have to focus on what both partners want, in order for the relationship to be balanced. While you call my outlook self centered, you hold a pretty naive view of relationships yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
No, actually I'm speaking on behalf of people in general. The standards I've been discussing apply to men AND women. If you weren't in the mood for sex, your partner should respect that, not throw a temper tantrum or whine about how her needs aren't being met. A caring partner would respect their partner's desires or lack thereof. If I come home after a long day at work, I'm tired, hungry and in a lousy mood and tell my partner I'm not up for sex, I expect her to understand, not make me feel like a lousy partner or complain about how her needs aren't being met.
Well, hell, if your rules apply to both men and women then you are essentially saying what Im saying: Being inconsiderate is being inconsiderate, whether it be in the bed, or withholding sex. And what are you reading? You certainly didnt read that I said its ok to throw a temper tantrum, or that I would throw a temper tantrum if my partner was too tired, or ill to have sex. I JUST said in my last post that if my partner comes home and isnt in the mood for sex, assuming I was in the mood for sex, I would BE CONSIDERATE OF HER MOOD, AND COMPROMISE. Who said anything about throwing a temper tantrum? You are introducing unnecessary elements into a relationship scenario by operating in binaries when it is not necessary. A compromise can be had without one partner throwing the other through a window, if the other is selfish in bed, or if the other is inconsiderate and withholds sex.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Any man who lets society or his partner dictate what kind of man he should be has no one but himself to blame if things don't turn out well. So what if society expects me to want sex all the time. If I'm not in the mood, then I'm not in the mood. I don't let society or my partner imply that makes me less of a man. And if you have a partner who does this, then you're obviously with the wrong partner.
Agreed. This happens to many men, and both those men and society are to blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
If you follow the line of reasoning put forth by solytaire, then sex is something each person should always expect from the other.
Its equally hard to want to please your partner if he or she has been withholding sex. If you follow my line of reasoning, then sex is something that a person is obligated to provide within a relationship, if sex is understood to be part of the terms of the relationship. Likewise, each partner is equally obligated to be considerate and compromise their own desires for the other. How would that not be the basis for a balanced relationship for both partners?

Last edited by solytaire; 12-15-2009 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:26 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 12,393,623 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
If you think that couples dont compromise for one another you are naive. If one person doesnt want to have sex and the other does, then one of them compromise their desires.
Maybe in dysfunctional bizarro world they do. If my dh is studying for exams, and isn't up for distractions, I would never...EVER...show him the type of disrespect you're talking about or others have noted in this thread. Nor would it be a compromise on my part. People in loving relationships do not do this. To be clear, I want what my husband wants first and foremost and vice versa. That's something many of you will probably never know/experience.
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