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IMO, it depends on whether he has established himself as the father. If we're talking at birth, no problem, walk away. If we're talking a 7 year old and the test is only being done because of a divorce, nope. You've had 7 years of being that child's father and you don't get to stop now. You've set precident. Just as I have set precident as my children's mother. If I found out today that my daughter wasn't mine, I'd still be responsible for her. I have, legally, established myself as her mother and even if DNA says otherwise, I am responsible until she is 18 unless someone else, voluntarily, takes over that responsibitly (but I'd miss her and probably wouldn't let her go anyway).
The difference here is the former is a matter of an accident, or something weird during the birth. The ladder encompasses a significant violation in the marriage. Also, some men just don't give a cr*p (some women too), don't bond, whatever. He shouldn't have to pay for a child that isn't his seed if it was based on a lie. Now, if he adopted the kid, that's a different story. But, the heart ache a man would bear over finding out his children aren't his is unfathomable to me. Anything he does or doesn't do is completely shadowed by this betrayal.
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I am a parent and there is nothing you could say to me to convince me that the two daughter's I've raised are not mine. The only reason a DNA test would matter at all to me right now is that it would mean I have a child out there I don't know. It would not make me quit loving the daughter I raised. I would not stop being her mom. I'd want to meet my biological child and make sure she's ok but I have no tie to her other than DNA and that's not much. In time, I'd get to know her and my daughter would get to know her bio mom (I'd be JEALOUS of that ) but I'd always be mom to the child I raised.
I think most people would as well. But, I can understand any outrage resulting and the woman should, in theory, pay for that. Just thinking about it upsets me to no end.
I get the impression that, that type of checking up (lack of trust) is condisidered a normal part of relationships for him, when in reality it's indicative of an unhealthy relationship. If that kind of boloney is happening, something is going very wrong.
I get the same feeling. People who are themselves untrustworthy tend to not trust others.
I will call my husband if he works late but not because I don't trust him. I just want to know when to expect him home. Unfortunately, I had the experience of having the police come to my door about an hour after he was due home once early in our marriage. He'd been held up at gunpoint (he was a truck driver back then). Let me tell you, your heart hits the floor when you realize 1) he's very late and 2) the police are walking up to YOUR DOOR. Thank God he was ok. Yeah, I call just like I call to check up on my kids. It's not because I don't trust them. It's because I care and I worry about them. They're important to me.
I'm not opposed to DNA testing to prevent switches at the hospital. If that were the argument you wouldn't find me objecting. I'm opposed to the assertion that it should be done to make sure mom didn't cheat. That will never fly with me.
Hi Braunwyn,
That is framing the argument. Its to establish correct paternity, not to establish if a woman cheated. A DNA test between a father and a child does not involve the mother at all.
Again there is only one reason why this is not routinely done. Its about control alright. A man should be able to freely test his paternity for his own presumed child. Its his DNA and his child. If he consents to skip it, fine by me.
The difference here is the former is a matter of an accident, or something weird during the birth. The ladder encompasses a significant violation in the marriage. Also, some men just don't give a cr*p (some women too), don't bond, whatever. He shouldn't have to pay for a child that isn't his seed if it was based on a lie. Now, if he adopted the kid, that's a different story. But, the heart ache a man would bear over finding out his children aren't his is unfathomable to me. Anything he does or doesn't do is completely shadowed by this betrayal.
I think most people would as well. But, I can understand any outrage resulting and the woman should, in theory, pay for that. Just thinking about it upsets me to no end.
But it doesn't matter to the child whether it's a deliberate lie or an accident (mom may really not realize when she got pg). And switched at birth is not always an accident. Babies have been, deliberately, switched at birth. I remember a case in the 90's where a nurse switched an unhealthy baby who was being put up for adoption with a healthy infant. Her justification was that no one would adopt the unhealthy baby. She did it so the sick child would be cared for. When this was found out, those parents didn't stop loving or caring for the child. They did locate their biological daughter (can't remember if it was before or after the child they raised had died) but they cared for the child they had raised as their own. I don't know how you could walk away from a child you've loved.
That you were lied to is one thing. That you established yourself as a parent another. There comes a point where DNA no longer matters. Years of being a parent to a child trumps a strand of DNA any day of the week. I'm having a very hard time understanding how learning a child isn't genetically yours could result in anyone wanting to walk away from that child. I can't wrap my brain around it. It would have me fearing that the biological parents would try to take MY CHILD from me.
I can see wanting the woman who lied to pay for what she did but you do not make the child pay. I think, once the child is grown, she should have to pay back every penny of child support, however, the child needs to be supported while growing up. Her punishment, unfortunately, has to wait until the child is taken care of.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 04-10-2010 at 12:54 PM..
That is framing the argument. Its to establish correct paternity, not to establish if a woman cheated. A DNA test between a father and a child does not involve the mother at all.
I'm not buying it. This is a dance, gwyn. It's unfortunate that you skipped over the std analogy, but again, it fits here like a glove. If I were to go to my dh right now and tell him I'm off to the clinic to get an STD test it would mean much more than preventative care, making sure all is right, doing my due diligence with my health, etc. The implications would be clear to any reasonable person. Same exact deal with the paternity test.
But it doesn't matter to the child whether it's a deliberate lie or an accident (mom may really not realize when she got pg).
It wouldn't matter to the child. It might matter to the betrayed husband, and that's his business and right, imo. I also don't buy into the mom may not realize when she got pg. Unless she was drugged and raped, the situation does not warrant claims of ignorance. I would support counseling for women that do this. It's serious business and screws up lives. Being a woman simply comes with greater levels of responsibility.
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And switched at birth is not always an accident. Babies have been, deliberately, switched at birth. I remember a case in the 90's where a nurse switched an unhealthy baby who was being put up for adoption with a healthy infant. Her justification was that no one would adopt the unhealthy baby. She did it so the sick child would be cared for. When this was found out, those parents didn't stop loving or caring for the child. They did locate their biological daughter (can't remember if it was before or after the child they raised had died) but they cared for the child they had raised as their own. I don't know how you could walk away from a child you've loved.
As kind, compassionate people, of course they would. This nurse, tho, is a criminal or crazy and should be dealt with.
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That you were lied to is one thing. That you established yourself as a parent another. There comes a point where DNA no longer matters. Years of being a parent to a child trump a strand of DNA any day of the week.
Well, this issue is stratified. 1. There's the bond with the child. 2. The violation. 3. The consequences. All need to be dealt with and one doesn't trump the other. And it's all dependent on the character of those involved.
eta: there's probably nothing the dads in these situations can do. Most of the time they probably love their children and won't let them go without. If it were me, I'd go to the woods, scream to the high heavens, do what I could to not let my children know my seething anger, and try to muster compassion.
I'm not buying it. This is a dance, gwyn. It's unfortunate that you skipped over the std analogy, but again, it fits here like a glove. If I were to go to my dh right now and tell him I'm off to the clinic to get an STD test it would mean much more than preventative care, making sure all is right, doing my due diligence with my health, etc. The implications would be clear to any reasonable person. Same exact deal with the paternity test.
Hi Braunwyn,
I am not looking for good analogies. I am looking to establish paternity as soon as possible because some women lie. Also, though much rarer, hospitals also screw it up. Finding out later is a complete disaster.
It wouldn't matter to the child. It might matter to the betrayed husband, and that's his business and right, imo. I also don't buy into the mom may not realize when she got pg. Unless she was drugged and raped, the situation does not warrant claims of ignorance. I would support counseling for women that do this. It's serious business and screws up lives. Being a woman simply comes with greater levels of responsibility.
As kind, compassionate people, of course they would. This nurse, tho, is a criminal or crazy and should be dealt with.
Well, this issue is stratified. 1. There's the bond with the child. 2. The violation. 3. The consequences. All need to be dealt with and one doesn't trump the other. And it's all dependent on the character of those involved.
Well, according to my doctor, I couldn't have gotten pregnant with either of my kids when I did but I did. Every woman is different. If we all ovulated on the same day of our cycle, getting pregnant would be a lot easier than it is for some. I'm one of those women you look at crosseyed and they get pregnant. It doens't matter what day of my cycle it is. If I went by ovulation mid cycle, dh can't be either of my children's father , now if I'd had sex with someone else mid cycle, I would have sworn he was the father not dh and there'd be lots of medical literature to support that. Fortunately, I didn't so I was just surprised to turn up pregnant when I thought we'd done the deed too early, in one case, and too late in the other. According to the rhythm method, my kids should not exist.
We'll have to agree to disagree, IMO, the child trumps everything. Once the child is grown, feel free to sue mom for whatever you'd like to but the child must be taken care of and the child should not lose their father because mom lied or didn't know who dad was...or maybe you thank her for giving you a child you never would have had...I guess it depends on whether or not you bonded with the child.
Having been raised by my step father, I know biology doesn't matter. Parenting is in the heart. If you stop loving a child because of a DNA test, you're a poor excuse for a human being. Even if it turned out my dd's were switched at birth, I can't say I'd regret that. I wouldn't know them if it hadn't happened. I'd just want to meet the child I didn't get to raise.
I am not looking for good analogies. I am looking to establish paternity as soon as possible because some women lie. Also, though much rarer, hospitals also screw it up. Finding out later is a complete disaster.
So you treat all women as liars because some lie??? So, how often are you taking lie detector tests to prove you're not sleeping around? After all, some men do and lie about it.
The saying rings true, it is easy to gamble when you have nothing in the game. The woman has nothing, the man everything. Take or leave that argument.
Grant it, in most cases, the woman may win the battle by keeping the children...initially, but who wins the war? Children aren't stupid...they can see the truth between their spiteful mother who bashes their father every chance she gets and their father who takes life as it comes, accepts the hand he's been dealt, and truly values the time he has with his children.
All I know is if I grew up knowing I could only see my father twice a month simply because he requested a DNA, I'd cut my mother out of my life mighty quick.
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