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Loose thr weight upon moving to places like Denver, phx, san Diego and Miami. In NYC men don't mind doing doggy style with porky women. In areas where people are fit, men want a woman in shape and that is very active.
NYC actually has more single men. However nyc does have an abundance of educated career women, compared to educated men. As women get older, they become more likely to be single in the nyc area. Most men either get married, move away or died out. I also read an article in the post where some educated/career women were marrying, but marrying down. Marrying men with menial labor jobs and such.
That last part stuck out to me a bit. I have heard of women marrying down. It does happen. I heard about this in a documentary. Most of it was interviewing men from NYC metro, Chicago, and Philadelphia, as well as some women from Brazil. It can happen and sometimes does. Even where I live I know a case or two where college educated women married men with blue collar jobs and no college degrees(the jobs weren't menial though).
The older the women get, the more likely they are to remain single. That is certainly true. Of course there are other variables that I can't really discuss here. However, that is a rule. The older a woman gets, the harder it becomes. And the same for some men.
Another factor to consider. In Florida and West Virginia, there are alot of elderly. For WV, the young who can leave do leave. The elderly often stay. Florida attracts alot of elderly. Women live longer than men. Some of Florida's cities have among the highest suicide rates in the nation.
I want to add more. Many cities with more single women than single men have high murder rates. St. Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore, Birmingham, Memphis, Newark. Alot of men getting killed and going to prison.
WV, western to central PA, much of Ohio, are all absolute garbage for dating as a man over 35. Pure garbage. The numbers game will crush you everything is a complete sausagefest. Women with 3 ex-husbands, 5 kids, out of shape, professional and academia snobs that only want to date rich guys, etc. it doesn't matter if it's online or RL. In your own demographic you will be forced to date way down if you give in.
As one of the people in the aforementioned areas stuck in complete dating options hell...the good thing for me is I don't care about women in the US anymore period I travel out of the country fairly often and attained a huge fondness for the cultures and women in Latin America over the years. The differences are so astounding and noticeable.
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Originally Posted by the topper
Nope, it ain't the 70's no more when dating was as easy as picking a fruit out of the tree.
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Originally Posted by Atlguy39
This is my experience as well. We're just a hook up nation now, and the criteria is very high even for that. Its awful. But yeah, the only women who reach out to me are ones I would never date.
Because the numbers game and culture is working against you and shifted to greatly favor women in many parts of the US.
WV, western to central PA, much of Ohio, are all absolute garbage for dating as a man over 35. Pure garbage. The numbers game will crush you everything is a complete sausagefest. Women with 3 ex-husbands, 5 kids, out of shape, professional and academia snobs that only want to date rich guys, etc. it doesn't matter if it's online or RL. In your own demographic you will be forced to date way down if you give in.
As one of the people in the aforementioned areas stuck in complete dating options hell...the good thing for me is I don't care about women in the US anymore period I travel out of the country fairly often and attained a huge fondness for the cultures and women in Latin America over the years. The differences are so astounding and noticeable.
What if you're 30?
I won't date women who have 3 ex-husbands and 5 kids. I don't want to deal with kids right now. I'm child free and I'm content like that. One reason I won't date women with children. Maybe in a few years I'll be okay with it and only under certain conditions(widower, husband cheated/beat her).
I'm not a rich man. I'm not broke, but I can't afford a mansion either.
NYC actually has more single men. However nyc does have an abundance of educated career women, compared to educated men. As women get older, they become more likely to be single in the nyc area. Most men either get married, move away or died out. I also read an article in the post where some educated/career women were marrying, but marrying down. Marrying men with menial labor jobs and such.
Women "marrying down" is a nation-wide phenom, and has been a growing trend for awhile now. It was reported in the media years ago. I met several long-term married couples like that back in the 90's and early 2000's; all the men were construction workers or contractors. The women were in a variety of fields, being the main breadwinners.
Suitable for me = educated, progressive, health conscious, in-shape, good character and open-minded.
Mind you, I have always been in a relationship and consider myself average looking but that hasn't stopped women from approaching me from time to time. Even when you let they know you're taken, some don't care (I love these women ). I've known many young professional females who are desperate to find someone stable and educated in NYC; asking me if I don't know any available male friends or family members. Again, these aren't people working in retail or some average jobs -- I'm talking nurses, CPAs, teachers etc.
I've lived in the NYC area, central California, and now Phoenix. I haven't noticed any significant difference in my dating prospects in these regions.
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
I look for similar things: Educated, in shape, good character. Now, open-minded, that depends on what it is. Progressive, that depends on what it is. A woman needs to share my morals and values.
I wonder what it is about you that makes women want to approach you, even if you let the know you're taken.
I live in the suburbs of Atlanta, so I'm thinking the dating dynamic is different from NYC. Atlanta proper has more single women than single men. However, based on many trips into the city, a sizable number of them aren't of good quality. You can still find some single women in the suburbs. That number, however, is smaller.
I've never been in a situation where educated women have ever approached me. And I'm educated myself. I would say I'm not a bad looking person at all. I am 30 and people frequently tell me that I look younger than that. I've been mistaken for my early 20s a few times. And this is something that has occurred my whole life. I'm also shorter than the average American male, being 5'5". I'm in good shape, not fat by any stretch.
The women who approach married men for dates, I have no respect for them. It lets me know she would cheat on me.
I've known teachers, nurses, and other professional women who were single going into age 30. Very few of them seemed bothered that they were single.I have never been in a position where any single woman was asking me if I had a friend or relative who was single.
Bolded 1: I've found that women are more apt to approach me if I'm out and feeling a certain way (have a good vibe, am being social, etc). They will also be more willing to approach you if you are very good-looking.
Bolded 2: I believe that this is your part of your problem (I have a similar problem so I understand).
Bolded 3: I have a few theories about this. My first is that women are inundated with so many dating opportunities that they don't need any help. My second is that feminism has taught women that they don't need a man. So they are embarrassed to be asking for one. There's a good chance that both theories are partially right.
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Originally Posted by HonestOne1
Until you have lived it firsthand, you will never realize what a massive role ratio plays.
Phoenix is inundated with hundreds of thousands of single men who moved here for golf and the tremendous weather and outdoor lifestyle. Average women are spectacular here.
A woman who couldn't find a decent guy to save her life in NYC would be inundated with men in Phoenix, including men who are younger and have no kids. These men in real life have zero interest in raising someone else's kids or dating an older women, but ratio is everything and they have no where else to go. (except freeze their axx off in NYC). San Diego (ManDiego) and Denver (Menver) have the same problem.
I've lived in the NYC area, Central California, and now Phoenix. I haven't noticed a significant difference in dating environments. If you are an upper echelon man (looks + height + socioeconomic status), you will thrive in any of these environments. If you are not, you can still do okay, but you will need to put forth a lot of effort.
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The arrogance of average and below average women is horrific. Move.
This is not a regional problem. It's a national problem.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Polymath
Is that what it is? I can't meet a single woman to save my life since I moved back here, and on online dating sites & apps, I'm essentially invisible. Over the last four years, I've just gotten legitimately depressed about the whole thing. I literally feel like an ugly, worthless piece of trash as a man.
I posited on a PHX forum somewhere that there must be something wonky about the singles environment around here, and just got verbally beat up and told I must be socially retarded.
I just moved to Phoenix and have interacted with women. It doesn't seem to be much different than my experience living in the NYC area. If you are not conventionally attractive, you will have some difficulty everywhere in the US.
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Forget women moving. I want out of here. I don't even like it here, and only wound up back in The Valley because I was having trouble finding gainful employment during the chasm years of the recession (family here were my safety net).
But 'move' easier said than done, for either gender. Depending on what you specialize in, career professions are often rather difficult to migrate. I'm an industrial designer (and have experience in R&D / product development) and even finding openings to apply to in areas I might want to live is a struggle.
Maybe it's because I just moved here, but I love it. I find the people way more friendly overall than in NYC and California. I'm also conservative and find many like-minded people here. Furthermore, the weather is fantastic and there's a lot to do without all of the clutter and dirtiness of Manhattan and Los Angeles.
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Originally Posted by HonestOne1
Men have no intrinsic value in Phoenix. In the right city, you would have value simply being an upstanding, honest, educated man who is commitment material.
The argument can be made that the average man does not have intrinsic value anywhere in the US.
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In Phoenix, or any city with a horrific ratio for guys, men have no intrinsic value while average and below average women are treated as spectacular. And their attitudes adjust accordingly. Men then become more desperate and the downward cycle just completely disintegrates as these women get more and more attention.
As I said above, I don't think things will change that much by moving from one city to another. I also think that moving just for the possibility of meeting more women is a bad idea. One would likely find themselves disappointed.
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These women have no clue that in a city like New York they would be begging for a man who could commit.
Again, as a man from this area, I have not noticed this to be a problem. Attractive, educated women do not have trouble finding a man anywhere unless it is self-imposed.
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
As a new yorker I can a test to this. Nyc has an abundance of educated, career driven professional women. Most of these women are white, and not from the nyc area. Most of these women will never get married due fact that they won't settle for less, thier are not enough eligible educated/careerist men of equal or higher caliber, and last some men know their worth and not settling, or completely removed themselves out of the equation. I know a few guys that moved to NYC and love it because it is easy to get laid here. I'm like how? As a guy I find it extremely difficult. However These guys don't get any women back in their native environments for being socially inept, not cool and so on. It's so funny because if I go to their small towns, meeting women is easy for me. Nyc attracts mainly plenty of rejects from across America, but aswell as ambitious types.
It's fairly easy to get laid anywhere if that's what you want and are willing to put in the effort.
I haven't really noticed what you speak of. Women in NYC will still discount an educated man if he does not meet height requirements (which I would argue are far more important to women than education/job stability).
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Thier is a another side of NYC that everyone forgets. Not all new yorkers are some hip kid from Ohio who moved to Brooklyn after finishing college at Yale. The hood is different. Women there too also what a husband, but they can't find one. Good men move away, to college or military, some men are not sexually or physically attractive. Instead women are with no good men, that don't amount to anything. Babies are sprouted and which creates an environment that leads to a broken home. Good men are not going to marry such women.
I've never been to the ghetto so I can't speak to this. However, I've met ghetto women. These women tend to prefer bad boys overall and pass up on good men (which is, ultimately, a win for the good men since these women are bad news).
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I swing between both socio-economic realms in nyc, and at times I do feel sorry for the women in both ends of the realm. My advice for women in NYC as well as DC is to probably move down south for an husband if you're a ghetto type. Or Seattle, San Diego, phx, Denver or San Francisco for professional types. Last. Ladies. Loose thr weight upon moving to places like Denver, phx, san Diego and Miami. In NYC men don't mind doing doggy style with porky women. In areas where people are fit, men want a woman in shape and that is very active.
As a new York man, from my observation and Experience with being with women. Class, academics, educational background, socio-economics, where you live, political belief, physique and at times race is a determining factor if a woman wants to enter a relationship. Women up here have to. I have to say that manly places like Denver, phx San deigo, Miami San Francisco, are complete opposite of mainly female dominated nyc and DC. If I was a woman from nyc or has moved to nyc, and don't want to settle for less. Its best to move somewhere else to get what you want.
Again, I haven't seen what you speak of. From what I've seen, women don't have significant difficulty anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
NYC actually has more single men. However nyc does have an abundance of educated career women, compared to educated men. As women get older, they become more likely to be single in the nyc area. Most men either get married, move away or died out. I also read an article in the post where some educated/career women were marrying, but marrying down. Marrying men with menial labor jobs and such.
From what I've seen, women are more likely to date a man of lower socioeconomic status than a man lacking in things such as height. If women find themselves in situations where they are unable to meet their socioeconomic equal, they have their misplaced priorities to blame.
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
I visited Phoenix last year. I really like the out doors environment, except it's too Damn hot. I also like the fact that women there are fit, if not trying to Become fit and taking appropriate steps. This is the complete opposite in NYC, except for a few neighborhoods in Manhattan. I have to agree. If Phoenix women went to nyc, they would have to beg and pray to have a man commit. These women would be better off in Phoenix because the city had a higher rate of marriage ready men.
I love Phoenix. Again, no major difference in women from one place to another.
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
Wrong. If a man is not physically attractive, sexually attractive, or does not have a career or educated. A good chance he will be single. Plenty of women in the northeast are very picky, local types to Transplant types. In order for me to get a girlfriend, I had to loose weight and fix my teeth. And now I have a girlfriend. My dentist said it better himself. A city like buffalo I would be a good catch with women. But in NYC, attraction is the most important for women.
Bingo. You need to have all of these things to be successful anywhere in the US. It is only beneficial to move to cities because you will meet more women. But you can only meet so many women and at some point, the actual size of the city and demographics become irrelevant.
If you have looks, height, an outgoing personality (this is important, but rarely mentioned), and a successful professional career, you will succeed anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
Women focus on thier careers, education, or taking care of their kids. Majority of these women are not looking for a long-term partner. on the flip side, these women are still getting Sex and even accidentally becoming pregnant. Not all, but some women who are career driven are very picky, they want someone tall, not all, top college a,hip neighborhood pad, suburban upbringing and an attractive job. Local women are bit different, they don't care about height or what college you went to, just as long as you dress well and look sexually attractive. Plenty of men for some women do not measure up. Even though I have a girlfriend now, for good number of women here I did not measures up sexually attractive department. Mainly hood type women. While for some career women, even though I have a college education, I did not attend a reputable institution, and I'm not employ reputable profession. Even though I have a solid character, good work ethic and value education. Such nuances mean nothing for some women here and they want the best of the best, which is understandable. I respect women's wants and desires. Next! There are lots of marriage minded men in nyc, however most women do not give them a chance, during the dating process and pass them along.
The major issue is when single mothers demand top notch men. I'd venture to guess that these are the women that you know that complain a lot. Am I right?
Top men have a lot of options. Most are intelligent and would not date single mothers. Of course, single mothers want the same men that most other women want. So this creates their problem.
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
That last part stuck out to me a bit. I have heard of women marrying down. It does happen. I heard about this in a documentary. Most of it was interviewing men from NYC metro, Chicago, and Philadelphia, as well as some women from Brazil. It can happen and sometimes does. Even where I live I know a case or two where college educated women married men with blue collar jobs and no college degrees(the jobs weren't menial though).
The older the women get, the more likely they are to remain single. That is certainly true. Of course there are other variables that I can't really discuss here. However, that is a rule. The older a woman gets, the harder it becomes. And the same for some men.
Your issue is not your socioeconomic status. It is your height. Most women will not give you a break in this regard. This is why you've been struggling.
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Originally Posted by wanderlust76
WV, western to central PA, much of Ohio, are all absolute garbage for dating as a man over 35. Pure garbage. The numbers game will crush you everything is a complete sausagefest. Women with 3 ex-husbands, 5 kids, out of shape, professional and academia snobs that only want to date rich guys, etc. it doesn't matter if it's online or RL. In your own demographic you will be forced to date way down if you give in.
Of course these places are terrible. You're in the boonies. If you want a desirable woman (good-looking, of child-bearing age, good career), you still have about 5 or so years to find her if you move to a big city. Once you hit 40, your best bet would be to move overseas if you can swing it financially.
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As one of the people in the aforementioned areas stuck in complete dating options hell...the good thing for me is I don't care about women in the US anymore period I travel out of the country fairly often and attained a huge fondness for the cultures and women in Latin America over the years. The differences are so astounding and noticeable.
I spoke too soon. Looks like you're ahead of the game. I prefer Asia though, personally.
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Because the numbers game and culture is working against you and shifted to greatly favor women in many parts of the US.
Yup. It's shifted against you everywhere in the US. Does this mean that you can't find a good woman? Of course not. It just means that it's much more difficult.
Our welfare state that supports single mothers and actually encourages their poor decision doesn't help.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Women "marrying down" is a nation-wide phenom, and has been a growing trend for awhile now. It was reported in the media years ago. I met several long-term married couples like that back in the 90's and early 2000's; all the men were construction workers or contractors. The women were in a variety of fields, being the main breadwinners.
Yes, women are more willing to date down in terms of socioeconomic status, provided that the man is tall and good-looking (ie: a man that she can't find within her own socioeconomic status).
I have met some women that have dated down in every aspect. These are the exceptions to the rule and are pretty much aberrations. The average man should not expect such luck (though it's theoretically possible).
Women "marrying down" is a nation-wide phenom, and has been a growing trend for awhile now. It was reported in the media years ago. I met several long-term married couples like that back in the 90's and early 2000's; all the men were construction workers or contractors. The women were in a variety of fields, being the main breadwinners.
Marrying down, and dating down. I have heard of cases where some educated women are dating men who are basically losers. I'm not talking about the construction workers and contractors that you mention. Those are good, hardworking men. I'm talking about the hood rats and fools with no job in addition to having no education, who will live off of their women. There has been an uptick in that.
I just moved to Phoenix and have interacted with women. It doesn't seem to be much different than my experience living in the NYC area. If you are not conventionally attractive, you will have some difficulty everywhere in the US.
Yes, women are more willing to date down in terms of socioeconomic status, provided that the man is tall and good-looking (ie: a man that she can't find within her own socioeconomic status).
I have met some women that have dated down in every aspect. These are the exceptions to the rule and are pretty much aberrations. The average man should not expect such luck (though it's theoretically possible).
The bolded is true for everyone, including women.
The guy was tall and conventionally good-looking in only one of the "women dating down" couples I've known. People react to someone who shares their interests and values, usually. Especially if those interests or the person's background is somewhat outside the norm, finding a match can be irresistible. That's what brought some of these couples together. One of the guys is under 5' tall with just a 5th grade education, while the woman was an engineer at the MA level. Humans are quite a varied bunch in their preferences, motivations, and individual psychologies. For as many that may fit into a box you design, there will be as many who fall outside the box.
You should move to DC or NYC. Looking at your profile picture. You would do really well in Williamsburg Brooklyn, Astoria Queens , east village, Chelsea area with women. You would do well in Chevy chase, dupont circle or in Columbia Heights Women there are into beards big time.
I grew up in NY: Too cold. And been to NYC a number of times (my last job had it's marketing department in Manhattan). The expense, congestion, and lack of autonomy utterly negate any appeal that the culture might have to offer. Dunno about DC, either. Don't think it's my bag.
The guy was tall and conventionally good-looking in only one of the "women dating down" couples I've known. People react to someone who shares their interests and values, usually. Especially if those interests or the person's background is somewhat outside the norm, finding a match can be irresistible. That's what brought some of these couples together. One of the guys is under 5' tall with just a 5th grade education, while the woman was an engineer at the MA level. Humans are quite a varied bunch in their preferences, motivations, and individual psychologies. For as many that may fit into a box you design, there will be as many who fall outside the box.
As I stated in my post, exceptions do exist. Sure one 5 foot man with an elementary school education was able to find someone that's highly educated. If you took 100 men in the same situation, how many do you think would have a similar story. My guess would be that he's the only one.
It CAN happen, for sure, but that outcome is highly unlikely.
Also, from my experience, most women seem to "prefer" very similar things in men.
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I travel out of the country fairly often and attained a huge fondness for the cultures and women in Latin America over the years. The differences are so astounding and noticeable. 
). I've known many young professional females who are desperate to find someone stable and educated in NYC; asking me if I don't know any available male friends or family members. Again, these aren't people working in retail or some average jobs -- I'm talking nurses, CPAs, teachers etc.
I can't meet a single woman to save my life since I moved back here, and on online dating sites & apps, I'm essentially invisible. Over the last four years, I've just gotten legitimately depressed about the whole thing. I literally feel like an ugly, worthless piece of trash as a man. 
I don't even like it here, and only wound up back in The Valley because I was having trouble finding gainful employment during the chasm years of the recession (family here were my safety net). 