Originally Posted by calipoppy
American men want to have their cake and eat it, too!
The Amercan men of today don't live up to the standards of men of the older generations.
But American men want American women to go out and make money; pay 1/2 the mortgage and other bills; look pretty; stay skinny; give porno quality lovin in the bedroom; pick up the kids and take them to soccer/ballet practice; cook like Wolfgang Puck; keep the house spotless; and keep our mouths shut.
These same men will leave the woman who does ALL of these things simply because she has reached her expiration date of being 48 years old and trade her in for the 22 year old secretary at the office.
Then they don't want to pay alimony to the woman who stopped her own career to put him through med/law/business school; bore and raised his children; managed the houshold; gave dinner parties to help him get promoted or land that big account or score that big investor.
Then American men have the audacity to call us "too independent" if we pay our own bills. Or, if not, we are "gold diggers" because we aren't independent enough. Or, if we just happen to make more money, they call us "materialistic".
American aren't jealous of Asian women we're just really disappointed in American men.
No, we want our cake and eat YOU, too. But you had a feigned headache, so you didn't get that tonight.
As far as today's men (and just what age demographic are you talking about?) goes, you have little real idea of what men of previous generations were actually about, the exceptions being your grandfather and your dad, which are mere anecdotal examples.
For example, in the immediate wake of the end of WWII, women who had been working in factories to support the war effort were basically all fired so that the men could have those jobs and because, well, the male establishment of the time just didn't see welding and metal work as things a proper woman should be doing.
Then let's go back to before Prohibition era, when rape was rarely reported because rape victims were somehow seen as dirty or "asking for it," when widespread alcoholism saw women getting beaten in numbers that dwarf today's per capita figures and it was largely seen as "okay" and part of a man controlling his domain.
Is that what you want to return to? You want to go back to the days when women weren't permitted to enter Ivy League schools because, well, all that book learning is wasted on someone who should just stay home, keep house and raise the sprogs anyway. Or, as Thomas Jefferson once wrote, women shouldn't have the vote because politics is just too nettlesome a business for women?
Now as far as child rearing and house cleaning goes, I am in my 50's and have never wanted kids and since I am a big boy I know how to pick up after myself (in fact, I'm something of a neat freak, though not obsessively so). I have never demanded from any of my girlfriends that they do my laundry because, well, I didn't want to gross them out. So I do my own and have since I entered college.
It's great that women work, but they also have the choice of quitting to be homemakers and society is fine with that. However, if a man stays home with the kiddies and is Mr. Mom, society laughs at him and questions his masculinity.
Women do see men as economic objects (research has borne that out) and feel perfectly entitled to do so while men are bad because we like women to look good since we are visually oriented. Indeed, what really rankles many married men is that women just seem to lose all interest in their appearance once they got a hand on his ATM card. They cut their hair and bulk up and thus begin looking like linebackers rather than the hot babe he once had.
Furthermore, all of the conditions women put up with are entirely voluntary. You don't HAVE to give birth, you don't have to get married and you don't have to move in with your man. And you don't have to quit your job. You can have a perfectly good long lasting relationship without any of those things. And most women have a pretty good idea that their man ain't gonna be doing any housework once they move in together. That isn't excusing slobby behavior by men (and you will note the remark I made about many men being arse scratching boors). But women do have an inkling of what they are in for in that department before they tie the knot.
As for cheating, it takes two sexes to tango (unless you're Larry Craig or Mark Foley). Men are putting it somewhere and someone is taking what they're offering. In fact, I have heard of some single guys who wear wedding rings to pick up bars because a lot of women, and women are very competitive with each other, love the thrill of taking another woman's man from her. It is a weird kind of self-validation and confirmation of her attractiveness.
As for the independence issue, I don't know where you get that. I actually like it when a woman has her own interests and brings content to the relationship. I am real independent myself (and am always busy with something) and so I'm not into holding somebody down because I realize how stifling that is.
Nevertheless, alimony is a joke because it gives women the choice of being a kind of societally approved welfare queen plus it rewards laziness. A woman with only a high school education can just live off her former husband's income while she either does nothing (like Barry Bonds' ex-wife, who is getting $30,000 A MONTH in child support in addition to alimony) or uses it for her own leisure pursuits. If you abolish alimony (and I would also impose caps on child support payments, too) you force women to realize that they have to stick up for themselves rather than taking the easy way out and live off of a man.
And listen, if you want to quit your job to either keep house or raise kids, you will then be forced to carefully consider all the possible consequences of that decision and whether you are truly ready for possible negative fallout. If you really value "independence" then doing away with alimony should be on your agenda since it will encourage more self-reliant behavior among young women and when gold digging disappears it will enhance the image of all members of that sex.