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Old 03-20-2018, 12:49 PM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,177,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Not disputing that that's the prevailing reasoning on behalf of providers, because if it's a concern, it's likely because there are cautionary tales out there that have caused it to be a concern. There will always be people with buyer's remorse who are ready to file frivolous suits, and there will always be attorneys ready to take their money.

But, like with other elective medical procedures, informed consent really should cover that sort of liability. Regret doesn't = malpractice.


No, of course not, but, sadly, frivolous lawsuits still cost to defend (and I'm sure malpractice insurance sometimes settles even on the frivolous as a business decision), so, risk aversion is the name of the game.


Not a great was to have public health policies decided though.
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:52 PM
 
6,573 posts, read 1,355,446 times
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I have not read the whole thread, but to anyone considering sabotaging his wife or SO in this manner, would you rather not have a child at all, or would you rather risk having it killed before before he or she is even born? And I think that any man who would knowingly force a woman into such a position knowing that she was not ready to become a mother is despicable.

(And, just btw, I am pro-choice prior to about the 23rd week of pregnancy, and longer if there is some kind of severe medical problem with the fetus or mother.)

Last edited by katharsis; 03-20-2018 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Middle America
36,644 posts, read 41,915,690 times
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Yep, and the actuaries who work with hospital boards and insurers decide that, anyway, not the providers.
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Nantahala National Forest, NC
27,093 posts, read 5,902,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate View Post
That is a huge violation and grounds for divorce, like yesterday. I would be fit to be tied. Being married does not give one control over their spouse's body. It would be better for him to find someone who does share in his desire to have children.

THIS.

What an obnoxious guy....so very selfish.

They should have agreed on a plan prior to marriage...if they did and she changed her mind, then divorce, find someone else. I'm not a lawyer but somewhere in this there might be a crime should she be able to prove his interference with birth control, and if she became pregnant.
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:01 PM
 
5,446 posts, read 2,344,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duster1979 View Post
Until you bumped this thread, they were last discussed before 2011.
Right? Wonder why the sudden "digging up old threads" is happening? Don't they see the person they are replying to hasn't been here in forever?
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:37 PM
 
6,573 posts, read 1,355,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCNYC View Post
Right? Wonder why the sudden "digging up old threads" is happening? Don't they see the person they are replying to hasn't been here in forever?
Just FYI, sometimes when someone wants to start a thread on a similar subject, there will be a notice from C-D to the effect that other threads similar to the subject are already in existence. Sometimes when that happens, I will click on an old thread just out of curiosity.
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Colorado
11,872 posts, read 7,313,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
I have absolutely no idea. I only know this doctor is pretty much on the up-and-up...or was at that time...really not alarmist or anything...a pretty good dude. He didn't really go into details. He explained it very briefly while I was signing. I was in my mid-30s, though. This was 12 years ago.

I don't know how the actual laws work, but this is what I was told. I definitely never got the feeling this doc felt women were only for breeding. He brought up BC at every checkup. As in, "So what are you on, are you satisfied, any symptoms, date of LMP, want to change...?" as a regular checkup thing. So yeah.
Yeah, I didn't mean that doctor specifically, just a world in which people can sue over something like this. It's wacky.

Getting sterilized also allows me to circumvent some pretty nasty side effects that hormone-based BC was causing me. But somehow, hey, all that is ok to put a woman through. But heaven forfend that she one day feel a bit wistful or get a case of the "what ifs."

Seriously I'd support a law that says, "If you sign the form that says you were given the facts, you're not allowed to sue us later. Sorry--you made the decision, you get to live with it." Maybe make the age of consent for this, like, 25 or something, I dunno. But people shouldn't have to doctor shop and jump through mad hoops because someone has this notion of how they might wanna live their lives.

I mean, if a soldier can go to war, and then "Hey, I regret my decision! I'm gonna sue!" would be a laughable idea, then something like THIS, merely being rendered unable to reproduce... And I definitely make these statements with both men and women in mind.

Another funny snippet of conversation between my doctor and I, when she was giving me the obligatory "try to talk her out of it" speeches... She said, "But what if, one day, you meet a man..." (LOL I was getting divorced at the time, and she knew it.) My reply was, "Oh, you have no idea. I've met so many men. And yet, still, I don't want babies."
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Colorado
11,872 posts, read 7,313,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Meh, to me, it's "whatever;" every single dormant thread on city-data concludes with a prompt to "please add to this discussion." Pair that with people starting threads and getting admonished for "not doing a search," or getting their thread merged with some old one, and I can see why thread get resurrected to add to the topic.

I don't care when people resurrect old threads, though the times when they address a years-long-gone poster are silly.


Anyway, on the topic, people change their minds.

Sometimes it is a blatant bait and switch, sometimes something changes in their lives and what they previously wanted isn't what they want anymore, and vice versa. My best friend from college is a self-described "confirmed spinster," and from when I met her when we were 18 until about two years ago (we are 41) was vehemently Team No Kids. She had some life experiences that changed that perspective, chose to become a parent, and has a son who is about to turn one. She is a single parent, so her change of perspective affected only her, and didn't require ending a relationship or getting/finding someone else on board with her decision.

If you do decide that what you want in life isn't what your partner understands that you want in life, after all, you have some hard decisions to make. But deceiving a partner should never be a route that's on the table. Obviously.
I'm aware of that, but like to reiterate the whole "this is an old thread" thing, just to signal it so maybe folks won't reply directly to the OP as though they're still here having the conversation.

I can appreciate that sometimes people have a change of heart. But for every story like hers, there's one like mine.

Didn't want kids. Got pregnant and wanted them then, and for years while they were young, then eventually when the baby-love hormones were long gone, the struggle had me stuck in a marriage from hell way too long, the kids turned into sullen, pimply, stinky, angry creatures who for some reason are suddenly taller than me, and because of whom I still have to interact with the only person who has ever really threatened my life... Hey, I'm having some regrets. Who do I sue??



I wish I could peek into the future to see how your friend feels when she's creeping up on 60 and coping with a teenage kid. I hope hers are less of a pain than mine have been, especially my youngest, who is the most dramatic creature I've ever laid my eyes on. Teenagers are seriously like our parents' revenge on us, for what we put them through, I totally believe it now.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
9,182 posts, read 16,656,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
Just FYI, sometimes when someone wants to start a thread on a similar subject, there will be a notice from C-D to the effect that other threads similar to the subject are already in existence. Sometimes when that happens, I will click on an old thread just out of curiosity.
Understandable, when someone actually plans to start a new thread. Sometimes a perusal of the existing thread might answer the poster's question.

But in most cases, including this one, it's a case of someone stumbling across an ancient thread and choosing to answer the original question. Again.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Middle America
36,644 posts, read 41,915,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I'm aware of that, but like to reiterate the whole "this is an old thread" thing, just to signal it so maybe folks won't reply directly to the OP as though they're still here having the conversation.

I can appreciate that sometimes people have a change of heart. But for every story like hers, there's one like mine.

Didn't want kids. Got pregnant and wanted them then, and for years while they were young, then eventually when the baby-love hormones were long gone, the struggle had me stuck in a marriage from hell way too long, the kids turned into sullen, pimply, stinky, angry creatures who for some reason are suddenly taller than me, and because of whom I still have to interact with the only person who has ever really threatened my life... Hey, I'm having some regrets. Who do I sue??



I wish I could peek into the future to see how your friend feels when she's creeping up on 60 and coping with a teenage kid. I hope hers are less of a pain than mine have been, especially my youngest, who is the most dramatic creature I've ever laid my eyes on. Teenagers are seriously like our parents' revenge on us, for what we put them through, I totally believe it now.
Oh, I think stories like yours, whether with people who more or less acquiesce to having kids, or who have buyer's remorse AFTER they have kids, are far more common than people deciding the other way after being in the childfree camp. I was really surprised when she made the active choice to become a parent, after a couple of decades of "I'm a professional auntie, but my own? No thanks!"

Although, as a person who also had children older (starting at 38) by choice, I find the "Just wait till you're 60 with college-agers" admonition to be absolutely just as eyerollingly presumptuous as anything else on these sorts of threads...it really isn't any different/less patronizing/less offensive to assume that people who have their children later in life "just haven't really thought it through" in regard to "being so old" when their children are reaching adolescence and young adulthood than it is to, say, assume that younger people "will regret what they're asking for" when they know they want vasectomies and tubal ligations at a young age. It's in general pretty presumptuous to just default to "Yeah, not really thinking that through, are you?" Personally, having both taught not only teenagers, but teenagers with serious behavioral and psychiatric problems for years, neither my husband (who became a father at 44) nor myself either has any misty, rose-colored illusions about teenage years, nor any real fear of parenting in the teenage years.
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