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Old 09-18-2009, 04:04 PM
 
16,424 posts, read 13,450,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
Yep i wish women like men would realize from the other side how hard it is for a man to approach a women and put himself out there like that to not only get rejected but have women make them feel like how dare they even approach thme it makes you feel like crap..I realize its hard for women getting hit on all the time and trying to filter guys out isnt easy but try to be a little nicer especially to the guys who dont come off as jerks..

As far as the protection thing i never got that..Protection from what?? The boogie man??

Hi JBT1980,

The best thing for a women to do IMHO is to look attractive but they need to know how to focus their attention if they want it. Women who go out in groups are probably wise to separate themselves to allow an opportunity to be approached especially in range of their interest. If a group of 4 women go out and form an intimating hedge you are probably only going to attract the horned toads who routinely make the rounds.
If I were a hot girl, I would learn the glance and beam it to the correct location and then break rank near him.


If you want to get a decent guy working his nerve up, then break this hedge. He may be confident enough but then he is not well practiced because he is not a grease ball. I think this is the guy that many women want. When I do see women go out and never break rank, they are just wasting an evening if this is what they want.


As for the men, learn to love rejection. If you do, you will eventually learn the love of a woman. I just starting asking and didn't care where it went. It makes for fantastic memories. I knew nothing about women and had to learn the hard way. If you don't have sisters you need to really school up.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:47 PM
 
4,721 posts, read 6,548,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
But what is a weak man??


Im as laid back as u can get and really not into arguments and confrontation unless necessary but it doent make me weak or that i wouldnt stand up for my girl or self i just dont care to stress myself out and argue over the smallest things like some women like to do..

Just because i may give in or in my mind not give a shyt in certian situations doesnt make me weak or spineless but in a womens eyes it might i guess..
a weak man is one who can't stick up for himself or others, who can't accept blame/responsibility of his own actions..etc.

you don't sound like a weak man

as for your other question..its hard to decipher who is legit or not of course, but if you're consistent in being nice, we can then begin to decipher whether you are genuine or not..that takes time though...consistency is key I guess
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:30 PM
 
4,837 posts, read 7,109,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
In general, I don't think women want bad guys per se. Its just that "nice guys" are a lot of times, the average or uglier ones who realize they have to be Mr. Perfect, personality wise, to have any shot at a women and even then have a tough time.

A really good looking guy can afford to be a jerk or apathetic because he realizes he's good looking. That means the women will give him more leeway to be a jerk and if she doesn't, he can easily find somebody else.
There was a time that women were terrified about what their family, the neighbors and their clergy might think. Now its changed completely and its what their girlfriends think. Consequently, they look for the superficial attributes first and worry about the rest later, much later. When they meet a man that attracts them, (and will impress their girlfriends) they just assume that he is lying or misleading them about his true nature and for the most part, for such men, they are correct. This is something they intend to deal with later when they assume they will get the upper hand.

It doesn't take much to attribute this dishonesty to all men. Its very sad when an otherwise honest and decent man has his words and actions twisted about by a women who takes everything positive about him and gives it a negative spin.

However, he should just realize that it really isn't anything he did but just the doubts floating around in the back of her head, about what her friends would think of him.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:34 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
969 posts, read 2,125,781 times
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I agree but I look at finish in a much more perverted sense.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:58 PM
 
4,837 posts, read 7,109,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mir86
haha! makes sense! I think I'm very average "girl next door" looking, but I still am very vulnerable to unwanted attention (I don't get it..maybe I look approachable?). I definitely do the aloof thing because I don't always want the attention since most of the time the guys are being vulgar and inappropriate or I can't tell if they're genuinely interested or just looking to get laid. its a shame that nice guys are too afraid to approach women, how hot she is shouldn't matter. but I also think the women who are cruel and shoot men down like dogs are to blame. I'm guilty as well..but I was only the type that would avoid their calls or become "too busy" instead of saying "not interested" but at least I was never downright cruel and evil.

Like someone mentioned above, women don't want a man who's too scared and can't stick up for himself..it makes me feel unsafe and like I can't rely on him. in biological terms, he wouldn't be able to protect a woman and her children either, or in general.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
Yep. I wish women like men would realize from the other side how hard it is for a man to approach a women and put himself out there like that to not only get rejected but have women make them feel like how dare they even approach them it makes you feel like crap..I realize its hard for women getting hit on all the time and trying to filter guys out isn't easy but try to be a little nicer especially to the guys who don't come off as jerks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
As far as the protection thing I never got that..Protection from what?? The boogie man??
So true. I laugh whenever a women wishes that "nice" men would approach her. As if she would even be able to distinguish them form the operators!

Basically, unless you are among the 15% best looking men, you get an almost uniform "look" from women in public. Its best described as "Don't even think of approaching me."

This is a big part of why relationship opportunities are so poor in urban settings and why those that do happen are so prone to failure. At least in a small town setting, people can approach each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
As far as the protection thing I never got that..Protection from what?? The boogie man??
I can only assume that these are the same women who, after they have children, assume that there is a kidnapper, rapist or pervert in every public park, at all times and just keep their kids home watching TV and playing video games.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:58 PM
 
Location: CA
3,469 posts, read 6,492,637 times
Reputation: 4735
"Nice Guys" who finish last are often not really nice. They are usually just boring, insecure, clingy, whiny, and passive, and often times the harbor a bitterness towards women that borders on or outright is misogyny. They hide under the "nice guy" label, and get brushed off as "too nice" because most women have nothing very good to say about them & want to let them down easy.

Now for the link:
Heartless ******* International - "Nice Guys = BLEAH!"

This one in particular was written by a man:

Quote:
NiceGuy', 'Jerks' - Different Sides of the Same Coin?

by Mithrandir

After reading through your "nice guy" section, I just want to thank you for finally summing up my feelings on the matter more cleverly and eloquently than I could. In the past, I have had trouble pin-pointing what it was that bothered me about "Nice Guys." I guess that, at first, I was too busy being confused to become pissed off: whenever a NiceGuy would complain that he has trouble with romance because he's too nice (and being in the middle of a nerdy social circle, I hear these complaints often), my typical thought would be something along the lines of:"huh; that's weird; every girl who I've dated so far has liked me because I'm nice. Conversely, none of the girls who have turned me down have done so because of my nicer traits; it's not like they say, "Sorry, but you didn't call me enough nasty names on our first date, and you forgot to slap the waitress' ass!"

Given this, I'd have a hard time believing that being (genuinely) nice is the true cause of this person's lack of romantic success, but I'd figure that perhaps they simply don't have a clue what the real cause is (and some truly don't, I guess). However, then I read your rants, and it gave me a laugh and also helped me pinpoint another hypocrisy in the NiceGuy philosophy; namely, they see the world as being divided between 3 types of people: nice guys, jerks, and "women." As if being a "woman" is the only distinctive trait possessed by women, and it is up to the "nice males" and the "jerk males" to compete for this commodity known as "womankind." How can anyone hold such a mentality and still get confused when nobody sees them as being every woman's dream?

Also, reading the comments that were sent in response to these rants has convinced me that these people aren't just ignorant hypocrites; most of them KNOW that they're really jerks themselves, and are just pissed off that their painstaking tactics are a waste of time.

Basically, the impression that I got from these comments is that the interests of these NiceGuys are almost identical to those of their "jerk rivals," and that they think of women the same way as well: basically, as potential "rewards" for all their hard work pretending to be a decent person. Basically, the negative responses were divided between 4 types of people (though you've probably already made these observations):

1)People who were oblivious to the fact that the rants weren't about genuinely nice people. It makes me wonder what is going on in a person's head when their initial reaction to a rant such as yours is "why, she must hate nice people!" I guess that these are the people who stopped reading in the middle of the title.

2)People who whine that whenever they befriend a girl, she starts going out with some guy who "just wants to get laid," and so then they "can't even get laid!" They should at least be aware of the irony here, but no; they're not even aware of the hypocrisy. As you basically said several times, you can tell the difference between a nice person and someone who is only pretending because the faker will complain about how they weren't rewarded for all their "effort."

Honestly, how can anyone devote so much time and effort into hiding their intentions and feelings towards someone, and then be surprised when these intentions go unfulfilled? For that matter, how can they think that it's an injustice that their intentions go unfulfilled when they're basically identical to those of the supposedly less-deserving "other guy"? These are the people who convinced me that NiceGuys know that they are jerks (rather than just being ignorant), and have some nerve claiming not to be.

3)Some screwed up people spouting weird stuff about how women need to be protected/ nurturing/ told what their place is/ (insert patronizing, puritanical gender role here), and how "that damned feminist movement is ruining everything." These people need a news flash: as we gain more and more knowledge in the fields of psychology, anthropology, and biology, it seems that we find less and less cause to believe that gender roles are anything but socially constructed. Neither sex is "inherently" anything, and it boggles my mind that people still try and cite some bogus gender role to back up their argument that women are inherently attracted to such-and-such, or that this-and-that are in their nature. No they're NOT. Women, like men, are "inherently" in possession of their own brains; it's not like they all run off some computer program, and it's not like they were put here as part of some "divine plan" where step 1 is that they have to be good mothers and obedient wives.

4)People who think that women must be attracted to jerks because they got dumped once or twice. Who hasn't? People like this need to stop seeing each individual as representing the whole of their sex. When a woman dumps you, this is not a mass rejection by all women. There is such thing as "individual circumstance," which means that people get together, people break up, and the who/what/why is going to vary. Maybe it just didn't work out, and it will with another person. Maybe not. Maybe her reasons were valid, and it's time for some self-examination. In any case, a breakup or two doesn't say crap about what "women," as a whole, think.

Anyway, I've written too much, and since you've already said it all, it's all the more useless for me to just re-iterate for so many paragraphs. I just felt like ranting, and figured that I may as well send the rant to the person who inspired it. Keep writing!
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:37 AM
 
2,433 posts, read 3,228,360 times
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An Alternative Theory:

Men have a deeply false and somewhat arrogant assumption that women are these nice, selfless creatures who's relationship focus is on finding a man to give love to. As a recovering "Nice Guy", one of the first psychological dominos to fall this concept that women are somehow absent the baser and more carnal drives us guys have and that when women date bay boys it's out of some sense of "Not knowing any better".

The truth is that women do see looks, they do see money and they do see the way you carry yourself in the world and how all this would play out in a relationship w/ you. Women are biologically programmed to find mates who have the best lineage to offer, and that doesn't always match up against what western civilzation has deemed to be appropriate or valued. The total aggro a-hole at the corner of the bar may not have much going for him from a logical prespective, but women see someone who will knock heads in order to protect/acquire resouces for them, and on a base instinctual level, that's hot.

Women don't enter relationships to necessarily fullfill your needs, just like you don't enter her life to fullfill hers. As long as she feels she's getting her "needs" met by said man, she'll stick around, no matter how bad it may look on the outside. And frankly, you [nice guy] trying to play superhero is only going to peevee her off. Find someone who fits your values and your aspirations rather than spending your time trying to look good for dimepieces.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:07 AM
 
16,424 posts, read 13,450,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crustedfilth View Post
I agree but I look at finish in a much more perverted sense.
That is a very nice thing to do.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:37 PM
 
2,996 posts, read 3,789,176 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
An Alternative Theory:

Men have a deeply false and somewhat arrogant assumption that women are these nice, selfless creatures who's relationship focus is on finding a man to give love to. As a recovering "Nice Guy", one of the first psychological dominos to fall this concept that women are somehow absent the baser and more carnal drives us guys have and that when women date bay boys it's out of some sense of "Not knowing any better".

The truth is that women do see looks, they do see money and they do see the way you carry yourself in the world and how all this would play out in a relationship w/ you. Women are biologically programmed to find mates who have the best lineage to offer, and that doesn't always match up against what western civilzation has deemed to be appropriate or valued. The total aggro a-hole at the corner of the bar may not have much going for him from a logical prespective, but women see someone who will knock heads in order to protect/acquire resouces for them, and on a base instinctual level, that's hot.

Women don't enter relationships to necessarily fullfill your needs, just like you don't enter her life to fullfill hers. As long as she feels she's getting her "needs" met by said man, she'll stick around, no matter how bad it may look on the outside. And frankly, you [nice guy] trying to play superhero is only going to peevee her off. Find someone who fits your values and your aspirations rather than spending your time trying to look good for dimepieces.
Great point we seem to think all women are nice innocent and harmless..

Theyres plenty of women who are just as sueprficial and selfish as the men were talking about..
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Old 09-19-2009, 05:34 PM
 
2,433 posts, read 3,228,360 times
Reputation: 2758
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeapple View Post
"Nice Guys" who finish last are often not really nice. They are usually just boring, insecure, clingy, whiny, and passive, and often times the harbor a bitterness towards women that borders on or outright is misogyny. They hide under the "nice guy" label, and get brushed off as "too nice" because most women have nothing very good to say about them & want to let them down easy.

Now for the link:
Heartless ******* International - "Nice Guys = BLEAH!"
After having read the site, I dunno if these so called "Nice Guys" so much have been shat on, rather than dodged a bullet.

What I see is a bunch of women making up BS rather than being real and saying the nice guys they're posting about probably didn't bring the drama/green/looks they wanted.
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