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Old 11-30-2009, 07:11 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,962,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi solytaire,

One observation I can make is most women hate weakness and indecisiveness. The easiest thing to do in the world is not to throttle your assertiveness down. Forget your sensitivity training. Simply look at testosterone and the endocrinology. The increased muscle and bone mass and enlarging organs is a preparation to draw fire. Have a look at a women hobbling in her 3rd trimester and ask yourself if she wants to go into attack mode. Do you feel sensitive and needy? I know I don't. I simply don't worry about arranging equality. What it that anyway? I will discuss anything, but if I know its stupid, we are not doing it. If I know its the right thing to do, we will. I never had any complaints or any problem with that attitude ever. I was severely punished in my youth for offering deference. I'll take the heat for it, or shiver in the cold.
I actually follow this logic. The above reflects the part of my mind that states that no matter what women say they like, look to their actions to discover their true desires. Many times, the two are likely to be at conflict with one another. Just trying to exercise somewhat of a dual conscience here, and re evaluate my upbringing.
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:28 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,151,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi Braunwyn,

Its probably why I found walking encyclopedias of the flesh boring. I am still a sensual being. Being a "scientist" is not the highest human endeavor.
For you, it's not. Tho, I don't know how you read a post noting the burn and turn out the above IRT any of the folk I mention.

Quote:
I suppose that is why I am enjoying Cat's Cradle so much. I have "scientists" to thank for the corn blubber we call margarine. I have no desire to polish the marble around the busts in the great halls of pedantry.
Indeed you do have such a desire. That's the crux of the argument here. You desire conformity and rigidity wrapped up in a bow of stereotypes.

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If you would so kindly step aside so I may defenestrate myself into the peat of the forest floor. Then I can watch the angiosperms peacock themselves with flowers.
Perhaps you might consider getting out of your own way, gwyn.

Quote:
You know it when you see it. A yes is a yes and a no is a no. You will not see them whining or blubbering. And no you don't quite get it. Nerd does not sell to women. A man's brain should hum under the hood. The nerd pulls over to the side of the road and pops the hood to show her the rocker arms. She is bored.
Again, you're speaking of a specific class of woman. There are more than enough women to go around for the sexy nerd. Come to any basement rave at MIT and you will see women flocking. OTOH, it is whining and blubbering by those that demand all succumb to their need of rigid roles.

Quote:
I have never found intellectual fulfillment from one person. Even a certifiable genius cannot do this. I am constantly interested in different things.
Of course you are. Life consists of so much more than one person, one experience, one pov. What turns each of us on is going to vary (to state the obvious). What I am pretty sure of is that assumptions thwart experience.

Quote:
It is not me making this decision. Its the women who make these selections. You run the risk of not loving much. Would you really consider yourself the equal of Nikolai Tesla? I suspect a women who recognized his dominance would fall madly in love seeing the opportunity to status jump.
Perhaps love or lust would result, but status jump? Don't you think that's a bit illusory, as all things are, which is dependent on taste? Honestly, gwyn, it sounds like you need to get out more. There is so much more to reality than reverance for societal norms...and status of all things. Yes, respect, adore; that's awesome, but it does not need to be a defining aspect of who anyone is.

Quote:
I guess I would tell anyone to get over it. If it were a man, I would tell him to knock it off and look at the white crosses of poor saps mowed down on the beach.
That's not what you tell men at all. You, instead, wax erotica with them. And when present females fail to respond positively, insults in the way of sterotyping are thrown like rocks. It is you guys that need to get over it. You will not always have your way.

Quote:
I was kicked around my whole life by bigger and better. I kicked back. Its a good thing I did not go into counseling.
Would you consider that you may have fallen right into place? A worldview that is defined via rejection of the opposite sex is not kicking back from where I sit. If CD is anything to go by, it's the norm and it's easy.

Quote:
Its because they are typically anti-social and are built to succeed in the absence of human interaction.
Scientists are all over the net. The last generic board I belonged to had at 10 residents on at any given time. This board has sparse few. Either way, these men don't need to prove their social status. They don't need to fluff their smokey feathers. They argue climate change, crevo, all around fun stuff. Not this gg to placate past wrongs in their personal lives.

Quote:
You also keep failing to understand the concept of an anecdote. I don't see women having desire to enter the technical fields in any number close to men. Engineering is at 20%. Its almost always what they learn in school. I have rarely seen a women tinker. All women need to do is do it and stop talking about it if it is what they want.
I don't see you or any demander of submission entering these fields either. You do yourself a disservice with all this coat tailing. Maybe if the lot of you kept the bologna to yourselves for second (culturally) you would be out of the way. What I think you fail to realize is that way too many women take this cr*p seriously. It effects their choices, how they view themselves, their goals and worldviews. It's irresponsible imo.

Quote:
Most intelligent men like to marry intelligent women but not career status seekers. I keep telling you the difference, and you keep ignoring it. My general education, such as when I read the Wealth of Nations, had already apprised me that my career in a modern society will make me a drone idiot if I let it. So I am no career status seeker either. Why would I want one as a wife?
The wife you have is exacly what is on par with you. Just like the rest of us. No more or less creative, intelligent, etc. Either way, I don't buy into the status game. I also don't by into the pressure selection rhetoric either.

Quote:
I do like you. You can at least keep a civil conversation. Why do you ruin it here?
Is it not the truth? Well, it's what I see at least. Take it as you will.

Quote:
Can you not agree to disagree? I explained to you several times it is an example of the different cognition between males and females. Chess is applicable to any algorithm and logical sequence which is also applicable to my profession. Yet you aim at the foundations to sink my swamp house. Do I just casually insult you? Please point it out so I may offer an explanation or, if necessary, an apology? Please retain the class you have typically upheld or allow me to revise my opinions of your conduct. My anthropological opinions do not seek approbation nor are they political pap issued to create a healthy glow in the cheek for one's personal goals.
Every sterotype you assign is an insult. The fact that you don't realize this amazes me. And it's not as if you do so generally, not that it matters. As far as agreeing to disagree...I'm not sure what this means in the context of our conversation. We agreed to disagree months ago. There comes a point where enough is enough, tho. Of course, that's not to say I don't like you. I'm pretty sure you know I do. Again, I currently have little patience for the rat pack of gwyn, salsa kind, and black jack. Perhaps it's that darn propensity of humans to group and stereotype that's getting in the way.

Quote:
It a real problem that affects real flesh and blood.
This isn't ringing clear either. You speak of selective pressures. How successful women are screwing themselves. It's not as if professional men are having children in droves either. Again, it's always the poor and uneducated that breed the most. This will no doubt continue. And we can either gear up for idiocracy or not. We won't. You'll probably have a couple of kids. I'll probably have a couple of kids. John and Suzy on welfare will probably have 5 or 6. From there, disparity will prevail.

Quote:
Just as it is one of my passions to study sociology since 25 years ago. I do "women's" work all the time. I made the Thanksgiving dinner. You find shame in it, not me. Thanks for yet another personal attack. I'll need a sack for them.
The fact that it's called womens work is the problem. A woman that cooks well is a good homemaker. A man that cooks well is a master chef. A woman that enters medicine is only following her nurturing nature. A man who enters medicine is akin to a god. A woman that can tackle technical intrumentation is pragmatic with her vacuum like appliances, a man is a master engineer. While I suspect you don't realize it, you attempt to strip the individual. You're boxing people in, assigning easy to comprehend roles, you reduce. That's not cool.

Quote:
You are angry at another fact? The prototypical house wife using a vacuum cleaner is an insult? If it is, then the problem is not with me and at worst, by your own admission, by ignorance.. I use vacuum cleaners and I can crab apple jelly like a grandma. See personal insults above and compare.
See above.

Quote:
If you cannot keep a civil intelligent conversation without it becoming personal, I am not longer interested. Decide.
See if you can follow your own advice, and the we'll see.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:49 PM
 
20,627 posts, read 19,289,703 times
Reputation: 8229
[quote=Braunwyn;11835774]

Hi Braunwyn,

I am going to truncate if you don't mind.


Quote:
Again, you're speaking of a specific class of woman. There are more than enough women to go around for the sexy nerd. Come to any basement rave at MIT and you will see women flocking. OTOH, it is whining and blubbering by those that demand all succumb to their need of rigid roles.
They will have a status and smell money. The more assertive of them will have the choice of women. The less than assertive will have their wives cheat on them in 5 years if they get one. That is to say on average.

Quote:
That's not what you tell men at all. You, instead, wax erotica with them. And when present females fail to respond positively, insults in the way of sterotyping are thrown like rocks. It is you guys that need to get over it. You will not always have your way.
I repeat I think for the third time. Ofcourse female submission is male erotica. I told you why. I am not attacted to an agressive ape waving its arms either.

Quote:
Would you consider that you may have fallen right into place? A worldview that is defined via rejection of the opposite sex is not kicking back from where I sit. If CD is anything to go by, it's the norm and it's easy.
I was kicked around by my 3 year older brother and his friends with two only child parents that had no concept of sibling rivalry. That is my point.


Quote:
The wife you have is exacly what is on par with you. Just like the rest of us. No more or less creative, intelligent, etc. Either way, I don't buy into the status game. I also don't by into the pressure selection rhetoric either.

You know exactly what our relationship is like?

Quote:
Every sterotype you assign is an insult. The fact that you don't realize this amazes me. And it's not as if you do so generally, not that it matters. As far as agreeing to disagree...I'm not sure what this means in the context of our conversation. We agreed to disagree months ago. There comes a point where enough is enough, tho. Of course, that's not to say I don't like you. I'm pretty sure you know I do. Again, I currently have little patience for the rat pack of gwyn, salsa kind, and black jack. Perhaps it's that darn propensity of humans to group and stereotype that's getting in the way.
I like stereotypes. They describe populations through research. So let me see if you would think it is an insult to suggest your degree comes from Cracker Jack? That is what you just said about research psychology that detects correlation and causation in demographics. I have explicitly made this statement and you keep forcing a recapitulation.

Psychology Research Methods

The research supports women and men are not equal. Here is what I think of man = woman.

The Flat Earth Society -- Home



Quote:
This isn't ringing clear either. You speak of selective pressures. How successful women are screwing themselves. It's not as if professional men are having children in droves either. Again, it's always the poor and uneducated that breed the most. This will no doubt continue. And we can either gear up for idiocracy or not. We won't. You'll probably have a couple of kids. I'll probably have a couple of kids. John and Suzy on welfare will probably have 5 or 6. From there, disparity will prevail.
I don't suppose you saw my thread on androgen hormone production that turns women more androgynous during stress? That is to say they shut down the reproductive mode into survival mode and become both less fertile and less attractive. Additionally women with careers tend to have fewer children later in life which means more idiot offspring with genetic abnormalities. Lastly they are shipped off to day care to someone making $10 an hour and could not care less about my children. As a free man I made a choice. I don't want nor care about a woman's career. If I were a women I would use my man's sponsorship to pursue something more meaningful than some lousy 60k corporate job which is mostly what we are talking about. I am not telling you what to do.

If I could not find a woman on this planet to go along with it, then I'd would have plenty of money left over to fund my exibit at the museum. Its a win, win.


Anyway during this holiday season I recall that I miss my sister in law. I always enjoyed fighting with that feisty woman who is the best thing for my gentle giant of a brother. You do very nicely you stubborn wench. You should be proud. Though I doubt we could be mates until I broke you in to my service.
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Old 12-01-2009, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,216,996 times
Reputation: 73924
I'm not sure it makes any sense to discuss how things were in the past. In the past, who had control had very much to do with who was (physically) bigger and stronger.

I would think we've evolved beyond that, don't you?
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:59 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,602,754 times
Reputation: 4314
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I'm not sure it makes any sense to discuss how things were in the past. In the past, who had control had very much to do with who was (physically) bigger and stronger.

I would think we've evolved beyond that, don't you?
The thing is women are still in the "Bigger, Badder, Stronger" mode when it comes to selecting a mate.

If you believe in evolutionary biology, then you come to the conclusion that sex drive is completely beholden to darwinistic law. Women are destined to be sexually drawn to powerful men, regardless of their emotional/romantic desires. I think this is the big thing that weighs down on women's happiness in relationships, since such men usually (not always) tend to be emotionally closed off and somewhat chavuanist.

On a personal level, I don't really know what to do anymore. I am a naturally cerebral and philsophically oriented person. I can be a man of action, but not on a physical level. Reading these boards, I feel as thought I have to completely rework my entire inner self to begin to be attractive to women.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:51 AM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,962,256 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
The thing is women are still in the "Bigger, Badder, Stronger" mode when it comes to selecting a mate.

If you believe in evolutionary biology, then you come to the conclusion that sex drive is completely beholden to darwinistic law. Women are destined to be sexually drawn to powerful men, regardless of their emotional/romantic desires. I think this is the big thing that weighs down on women's happiness in relationships, since such men usually (not always) tend to be emotionally closed off and somewhat chavuanist.

On a personal level, I don't really know what to do anymore. I am a naturally cerebral and philsophically oriented person. I can be a man of action, but not on a physical level. Reading these boards, I feel as thought I have to completely rework my entire inner self to begin to be attractive to women.

I was going to say this exact same thing. I think on paper/in books, the hyperaggressive, assertive, dominate male wolf stereotype seems great. But because our society values and protects women, this presents a problem when women place themselves on an equal footing as those men. They are often the same men with dominate personalities who go on to abuse their partners physically. The projection of confidence doesnt necessarily displace hypermasculinity. And because their powerful persona is equated with confidence, they have a wider range of women from which to choose. This is terrific for the dating man, but men in relationships who are afforded these options frequently stray from their partners into affairs, simply because females, no doubt, gravitate toward visibly assertive personalities.

But I dont feel that I must rearrange my entire inner workings. I think that if a woman doesnt want to be with me because Im not some loud, in her face neanderthal, then more power to her. But I am comfortable in the knowledge that I have already proven to myself and to those who were around me that I am competent in both physical contest and in academia. This enables me to be relatively confident in my ability to handle trials and responsibility despite the fact that Im not naturally aggressive. Although since I am not naturally assertive, I doubt it will ever translate to being an altogether ladies man. But I do feel like I am as apt of a partner as any other male despite lacking assertiveness.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:11 AM
 
20,627 posts, read 19,289,703 times
Reputation: 8229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
The thing is women are still in the "Bigger, Badder, Stronger" mode when it comes to selecting a mate.

If you believe in evolutionary biology, then you come to the conclusion that sex drive is completely beholden to darwinistic law. Women are destined to be sexually drawn to powerful men, regardless of their emotional/romantic desires. I think this is the big thing that weighs down on women's happiness in relationships, since such men usually (not always) tend to be emotionally closed off and somewhat chavuanist.

On a personal level, I don't really know what to do anymore. I am a naturally cerebral and philsophically oriented person. I can be a man of action, but not on a physical level. Reading these boards, I feel as thought I have to completely rework my entire inner self to begin to be attractive to women.
Hi Shizzles,

Try to think of it as wavelengths. One man may pour out the blue band while you pour out the yellow band. One such as you may naturally feel a quiet confidence. You move slowly and deliberately with no anxiety. You already know what is going to happen next etc. Nature has put you here to express yourself and where the seed lands may not be in the best spot. Remove your self from the crack in the side walk.

When I was teaching my wife something she was upset with me and yelled at me in frustration. I just sat there and waited for it to pass. Then I simply said we shall proceed. She absolutely loved that I did not flinch or crack and passed on the skill. Other times I yelled back and that was a colossal failure on my part. She may yell at me, but I will not at her. When my wife becomes emotional, it is time to have none of my own. Just be a rock she can grab onto.

What is also interesting is that I even notice negative emotions that I exude as a result of being more conscience of this. I generally act only positively for quite some time now. I do not come home "tired from work". I come home with a smile. Anger is aggression but its like burning gasoline in the can uselessly and destructively. However it can push a truck when put in the correct place.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,084 posts, read 1,545,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
When I was teaching my wife something she was upset with me and yelled at me in frustration. I just sat there and waited for it to pass. Then I simply said we shall proceed. She absolutely loved that I did not flinch or crack and passed on the skill. Other times I yelled back and that was a colossal failure on my part. She may yell at me, but I will not at her. When my wife becomes emotional, it is time to have none of my own. Just be a rock she can grab onto.
You know that's very interesting. I think you might have just put me on the path to an epiphany. I have noticed in myself that when I am with emotional people I tend to be less emotional. I feel like I need to be the rock, to be the life preserver other people can grab onto in the midst of the raging sea of emotion. It works GREAT when I assist a salsa teacher who loses patience with the class very easily. I find myself able to help him to stay focused and to help the class from getting frustrated. I HAVE to. It's almost my job as an assistant. When I am alone I can be very emotional. So maybe that is something I need to look for. Maybe even in a mate. Hmmmm... Perhaps this is common in men and women and it encourages a duality in men and women to be unemotional and emotional wrecks. Perhaps women's emotional swings have an evolutionary purpose, giving men a reason to be strong, unwavering, supportive structures. Hmmmm... I'm definitely going to have to think on this more.

Thanks gwyn.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Philly
1,776 posts, read 3,999,152 times
Reputation: 834
It's genetics. Deny it if you want to, but naturally a woman generally desires a man to take the lead.
And men, who are aware of this, generally will take advantage of the woman's desire. So she'll rebel and challenge his role.

Neither gender is perfect or absolute in their role, so the best marriages are those where both people recognize their needs and flaws and work hard to bring out the best in their mates.

It's also a learning process. Men have to learn what it means to properly take the lead, and women have to learn what it means to be submissive. This takes time and experience.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,253,323 times
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there probably is and it works like this
on assertion and submission

assuming you are a guy & did not do the stupid thing and get married.
so here you go --women are like renters
every once in a while they decide they wana live there a nice place, but dont wana pay rent
so you invite them to leave, they think about it and realize that would mean they gota move
and they gota be super nice to the next landlord and ASK for a place to live AND pay maybe even more
next day a sobbing woman comes by with an apology and the money promising never to do it again
good for maybe 4 years b4 it happens again

in the rental business this particular insane ritual generates lots of money
in the girfriend biz it generates lots of good makeup sex
unfortunately both insane rituals are very necessary
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