Where have all the good black men gone? (boys, issues, screaming)

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by samston

Acting in accordance with black culture. The idea of acting black is behaving in and talking in a specific way that I find distasteful.

It's kind of like black people who listen to rock, or don't speak in slang, are deemed not acting black.

I think what you’re trying to say is that you don’t act ghetto, classless, tacky, ignorant, etc but why you choose to keep trying to make those words synonymous with being black has truly confused me…I guess if you are dealing with a bunch of hood people or grade school children that would apply but generally most adults with common sense to don’t really buy into “acting” black…I have to tell you as a black woman there’s nothing more unattractive to me then a black man bragging about the fact that he doesn’t “act” black…as if being black is something to be ashamed of…you might want to find a way to rephrase that if you plan on using that as one of your selling points.

[Heaveno]

Originally Posted by samston

Acting in accordance with black culture. The idea of acting black is behaving in and talking in a specific way that I find distasteful.

It's kind of like black people who listen to rock, or don't speak in slang, are deemed not acting black.

DO the majority of blacks you know speak in slang ? Most blacks that I know speak proper English, sometimes with a southern or northern accent, or none at all. Are there some words that I hear not spoken correctly? Sure there are, but that happens to be a literacy problem. To reference your statement are you possibly speaking of Ebonics? If you are speaking about profanity then I would say that I hear both white and black people saying foul words or words that are deemed to be ones that would be considered profanity. Listening to rock is universal for all races. There was a time in history when it was unusual to hear that someone Black or Asian enjoyed this type of music, but we have entered into a historical time where many genres of music are listened to by all races. Music is very universal. Acting black means pants sagging down? Rap Music? Please explain what you mean. All people can behave in a disrespectful manner, so I am not sure what you are talking about when you say Black people being distasteful.

[Ameiko]

Just popping back in here and saw some outlandish comments from MeetMeinSTL who shows WHY women aren't finding good men (I'm assuming MMSTL is a woman) in that rather than truly considering my wisdom and POV's, she simply attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameiko
Why is this 24 pages when the answer is simple:

The good men (black and otherwise) are all around you! In the mall. In the grocery story. In the office. In the book store. In the.... you get the idea. They are simply invisible to most women because the don't have a certain look or height or swagger or whatever sparkle a woman is looking for.

These are the men whom women rejected in favor of more "exciting", "alpha", "player" of "thug" men. These are the men who buckled down and used that time not consumed with women (or the chase) to study, build up their skill sets, educations, career, etc... so they could have a better shot with women later in life.

These men, in their late 20's and 30's, who are now all that in terms of what a "good man" look around at the women in their age category, with the vanishing looks, sagging bodies, thuglets, and horrible attitudes (both most men are bastards and that they deserve one of the good men who is not a bastard) and asking, "is THIS what I worked so hard for? Oh HELL NO!" They also remember how those women who are now trying to be rescued by them were the same ones who rejected them and are returning the favor.

With his increased wealth, status, confidence, and better control over his sexual desires, this man sets his standards higher: a younger woman with a nice attitude and no children. Better to not have that and look than to settle with an old hag past her prime, one who spent her youth and beauty on "bad boys" and thus lacks the right to a good man.


From MMSTL (in italics):
Those are also the men that are hard to find.

After everything I wrote, that's all you can say: a direct contradiction? Wow. As I said, those men are EVERYWHERE and you just need to open your eyes. Nope, much easier to stick to the "there are no good (black) men left," nonsense rather than accept responsibility. Also, it's much easier than realizing that the women who are now looking for good men are not worthy of those men. My value is much to high for an aged woman who ignored me in my youth and now needs a savior for her and possibly her kids. My worth is too high to deal with a stress-inducing "strong" woman who wants to be a man rather than a woman.

I haven't seen any real good rebuttals in this thread as to why there is a shortage of decent clean cut black men,

What you quoted from me IS a good rebuttal. It just doesn't fit your world view so you cast it aside.

rather I just see people blasting their opinion about how black women supposedly aren't interested in that type of man.

More specifically, how the only time black women (or most women in general) are only interested in "good men" when it suits them, rather than it suits the man. Or how when she is ready for that "good man", he is not interested in HER.

You sound like a jerk anyway, and the sad part about it is, you probably don't even get it. Just another one blinded by our youth obsessed culture but that's a whole 'nother topic.

Personal attack and shaming language. You have nothing to contribute that is rational or logical. As for youth obsessed culture, not even CLOSE. Even in Asian cultures where (and now), the reverend elder is respected, a man did not seek an older woman for a wife. He sought a younger woman since she was more fertile and could give him more years of bearing children. This is not cultural but biological. Aging women like to complain that men don't appreciate them but that's like men complaining that women don't appreciate underconfident, balding, and short men. It is just what it is for most people. Don't like it? Snag a good man when you are in your prime.

That young woman you marry, will most definitely be saggy one day and probably even fat.

Maybe. But I will have had more time with a youthful and beautiful woman with that younger woman than the model 15 years older. That is an improvement.

Guess you'll just dump her for another young woman who only marries you for your 'money' because chances are since she's considerably younger than you, she only wants you because you're established knowing in the back of her mind she can cheat with someone her age that's better looking and when she divorces you she'll get half.

If I married her, I would keep my word and thus I would not dump her although I would expect her to maintain her looks to a reasonable extent. As for your venmous words about her cheating on me and still getting half, you have shown knowledge but wisdom. Think on your words and then wonder WHY "good men" are avoiding women or at least marriage (and a defintion of a good man, by a woman, is a man who will marry her despite her short comings that make her ill suited as a wife).

Your post was just as superficial as you claim some black women to be. You're stupid and are in for a rude freakin' awakening. True love conquers all, sounds like that's not important to. Instead, you want a trophy wife and frankly you deserve what's coming. I'll be sensible and won't judge all black men on your ridiculous post.

Your response is nothing but venom and emotion. You claim I am superficial- why? Because I seek a beautiful woman? Because I will not settle for a woman who showed questionable judgement in laying (and possibly spawning) with thugs and yet expects that a knight will rescue her? You also show ignorance in saying that true love conquers all even as you earlier quoted about divorce. In this society, where divorce hovers around 50%, clearly love does not conquer all. It is not as unshakeble as you think but instead most emphereral. Marriage was for most of history a business proposition. To toss yourself into it with an idea that love conquers all is silly and indeed many women get into horrible relationships (men too) with the idea that love will fix their mate for the better. It seldom works out like that.

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by Heaveno

DO the majority of blacks you know speak in slang ? Most blacks that I know speak proper English, sometimes with a southern or northern accent, or none at all. Are there some words that I hear not spoken correctly? Sure there are, but that happens to be a literacy problem. To reference your statement are you possibly speaking of Ebonics? If you are speaking about profanity then I would say that I hear both white and black people saying foul words or words that are deemed to be ones that would be considered profanity. Listening to rock is universal for all races. There was a time in history when it was unusual to hear that someone Black or Asian enjoyed this type of music, but we have entered into a historical time where many genres of music are listened to by all races. Music is very universal. Acting black means pants sagging down? Rap Music? Please explain what you mean. All people can behave in a disrespectful manner, so I am not sure what you are talking about when you say Black people being distasteful.

I believe back in the day they called that "color struck"

[Ameiko]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameiko
Funny you should say that because thats exactly where they come from! Thats the problem now we are always looking instead of waiting for the partner that was designed just for us! good things come to those who wait.

That's bs. If you want something, go out and FIND it! Every relationship or sexual encounter I had except for two were because I went out and found it. In those two cases, one was a girl I worked with and another was a friend of a friend I met at a party. BTW, both of THEM were in relationshps at the time which says something... not sure what.

Anyway, the more you wait rather than approach, the less your chances of a "good man" especially because many good men do no approach- too easy to get blown off, too busy working on something, too busy with family, etc...

You're expecting Mr Right to literally knock on your door. How is that working for you?


*cough* sleaze *cough*

What is sleezy? That I met women who pursued me when they were in relationships (I had sex with one without knowing that fact)? Does that make ME sleezy or the harlot who broke the trust a man invested in her?


You're better off not participating in this discussion. That other post of yours pretty much summed up that you prefer to date outside of your race anyway. This conversation isn't for you.

I would say the same to you. You lack the logic and rationality, not to mention the self awareness, to engage in proper discourse. If someone says something you don't like, you don't post against the ideas but the poster. This shows you have no true counter point, thus undermining your position.

[mongoslade223]

Originally Posted by Heaveno

DO the majority of blacks you know speak in slang ? Most blacks that I know speak proper English, sometimes with a southern or northern accent, or none at all. Are there some words that I hear not spoken correctly? Sure there are, but that happens to be a literacy problem. To reference your statement are you possibly speaking of Ebonics? If you are speaking about profanity then I would say that I hear both white and black people saying foul words or words that are deemed to be ones that would be considered profanity. Listening to rock is universal for all races. There was a time in history when it was unusual to hear that someone Black or Asian enjoyed this type of music, but we have entered into a historical time where many genres of music are listened to by all races. Music is very universal. Acting black means pants sagging down? Rap Music? Please explain what you mean. All people can behave in a disrespectful manner, so I am not sure what you are talking about when you say Black people being distasteful.

Let's remember that rock music came out of rhythm and blues, and that many of the greatest rock guitarists (Clapton,Page,etc.) were heavily influenced by black blues guitar players. Also that the majority of Rap music's audience are white teenagers.

I speak colloquially when I am talking casually or on a forum like this and make no apologies for it. Most folks know what I'm talking about

[Ameiko]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus
They're at the store carefully picking out fruit, or buying a birthday card for their sister or mother. They're at the music store in the classical music section. They're near the university and close to education. They play the violin, cello, bass, or viola. They're up early working out in the nicest part of town, or living in the nicest part of town away from trouble. They're busy working and making their fortune. They're mingling with people of all races, not just black people. You won't find them in black barber shops because they don't prefer to look like Sonny Liston or take on that ex-con look. They may wear eyeglasses because looking street-smart is not a priority. They are very close to their mothers, sisters, grandmothers, female cousins. They doesn't surround themselves with men who are divorced or dating multiple women at the same time. They're not likely to have a lot of friends because they're selective and have high standards. They're intelligent and soft-spoken, not a loud mouth OchoCinco type screaming for attention. They like to read. They probably have no trouble meeting women and most likely date women of any race.

They're out there, but finding one depends on what YOU are about. It starts with appearance? What do you look like? Are you attractive and slender and enjoy taking care of yourself through proper diet or exercise? Or are you some big butt hoochie mama with a linebacker look and a hog head? Are you educated and committed to a life of learning? Or are you one of those who is done with school after you "got my paper", majoring in Interpersonal Communications? Do you have the musical sophistication to appreciate classical music, or do you know the lyrics to every hip-hop song in the top 50 for the last 15 years? Do you dress well? Or are your shoes run-over? Are a genuine person who exudes self-confidence and self-respect, or do you have a take-no-sh-t attitude as if you don't "need a man to complete you"? Are you respectful of the men in your life, your father, brothers, grandfather, cousins? Or do you have some serious intimacy issues with men because your father wasn't there for your mother or for you either? Have you always been selective in the men you chose to get close to? Or have you made countless mistakes going after superficial pretty boys, and been dogged to the point that you carry great baggage going forward? Are you a good judge of character in a man, especially if he at first appears to be not to your liking? Or are you the type who couldn't identify a good man if God himself put him in your lap?

They're out there, but much depends on you too. Good luck!

From hoarfrost:

That's a very narrow definition of what constitutes a good person. Take out all the false dichotomies, and you have a sort of reasonable post here.

Apparently, the only good black guys are self-absorbed, money hungry, church goin' family men. You've just traded one box for another.

While I am glad you commented that it was mostly a reasonable post, you still had to attack him rather than fully absorb his words. This is why most women, black or nor, JUST DON'T GET IT and are doomed to have non relationships with bad men- because they don't listen or consider ideas that contradict their diva complexes.

[Heaveno]

Originally Posted by mongoslade223

Let's remember that rock music came out of rhythm and blues, and that many of the greatest rock guitarists (Clapton,Page,etc.) were heavily influenced by black blues guitar players. Also that the majority of Rap music's audience are white teenagers.

I speak colloquially when I am talking casually or on a forum like this and make no apologies for it. Most folks know what I'm talking about

I know exactly what you are speaking about. No qualms or disputes from me regarding what you mentioned. I grew up with the ear for all music, well put it this way I was culturally exposed to many genres of music, not just music specifically or primarily listened to by black people. I also exposed my children to all music as well, so we are very diverse in the selection of music we listen to, but I would be accused by some as acting white because I enjoy going to the symphony/opera/ and folk music festivals. I just appreciate the many sounds of music. How delightful to my ears it is!!! LOL!!!

[Do a Barrel Roll]

Originally Posted by Ameiko

After everything I wrote, that's all you can say: a direct contradiction? Wow. As I said, those men are EVERYWHERE and you just need to open your eyes. Nope, much easier to stick to the "there are no good (black) men left," nonsense rather than accept responsibility. Also, it's much easier than realizing that the women who are now looking for good men are not worthy of those men. My value is much to high for an aged woman who ignored me in my youth and now needs a savior for her and possibly her kids. My worth is too high to deal with a stress-inducing "strong" woman who wants to be a man rather than a woman.

...

More specifically, how the only time black women (or most women in general) are only interested in "good men" when it suits them, rather than it suits the man. Or how when she is ready for that "good man", he is not interested in HER.

...

Because I will not settle for a woman who showed questionable judgement in laying (and possibly spawning) with thugs and yet expects that a knight will rescue her?

This is basically the "bitter medicine" point that needs to be taken, and the message I alluded to back at page 35 about most black teen girls needing to totally revamp and reform their definition of what they define as worthy of their emotional and sexual energy. If this simple principle would be taught by their parents and practiced with all black teen girls, it would reverse the effect of so much of the black community's ills.

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by Heaveno

I know exactly what you are speaking about. No qualms or disputes from me regarding what you mentioned. I grew up with the ear for all music, well put it this way I was culturally exposed to many genres of music, not just music specifically or primarily listened to by black people. I also exposed my children to all music as well, so we are very diverse in the selection of music we listen to, but I would be accused by some as acting white because I enjoy going to the symphony/opera/ and folk music festivals. I just appreciate the many sounds of music. How delightful to my ears it is!!! LOL!!!

Me too. Riding in the car with me you're likely to hear James Brown, Aerosmith, Brian McKnight, Shania Twain, The O'Jays, Kid Rock and Sam Cooke all on the same CD.