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Unread 01-09-2010, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Southern California
681 posts, read 505,659 times
Reputation: 980
Default My last post on this topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamgirl84 View Post
You're right, being a good Black man does consist of all those things however, I cant deny the amount of times I've been told "You can't change a man..." Quite frankly, I dont want to have to shape and mold my man. Now I'm not saying a brother who needs some encouragement is out of the question. But he's needs to alreadly have a vision for where he is going in life. Black women are looking for men like themselves... We are graduating from higher institutions at record numbers, mataining careers (not jobs), and upward mobility is high on our priority list. (I know its on mine) We are now, more than ever beginning to see that the elusive American dream, is attainable... even for us. So, this means that our male counterparts need to be equally interested in owning their own homes, leaving the sometimes poverty stricken neighborhoods that we know and love, for something better. We want to be able to leave our house, and not see anyone hanging on a corner a 7 in the morning. We want to send our kids to good schools. When looking for good Black men, we're also considering the quality of life, as well as the personal relationship.
That's all well and good. And I honestly wish you the best in your search. But as someone who is in his seventh year of marriage and has been with the same black woman for over a decade let me try to shed some light.

Miss me with that American dream stuff. What I mean is a marriage is not about being upwardly mobile. It is not about keeping up with a social standard based on material wealth (or the appearance of). It is not about who has the better job. It is not about the number of certificates you have hanging on the wall in your home office. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. And I am not trying disrespect the American Dream concept. But college degrees don't sooth arguments. Money doesn't make a man want to rediscover his wife after the seasons of life have brought about change. "Good" schools don't give children character, and they dang sure don't move them to love and respect their parents.

On a personal note my parents were teens when they had me. They never married and broke up soon after I was born. My wife's parents did marry but went through a horrible divorce that tore their family apart. I have a number of half siblings as does my wife. When I look at my wife and our two kids (that were born after we married) I realize this is much bigger than her and I. This is about way more than a checklist of mate qualities. This is about so much more than being "upwardly mobile." For us, this is about changing the direction of our families. My parents never married. My father's parents never married. My mother's parents never married. And by that you can guess the kinds of lives my family members have lived. Yet my son and daughter were born to married mother and father. That may mean nothing to you or anyone else. However, for me that runs deeper than any conversation about mate qualities and education level. The daily decision that my wife and I make to give of ourselves into this union is literally breaking down barriers for our son and daughter. Years from now when I am gone I hope my posterity can look back at my wife and I and say the direction our family line changed with us.

Really, some people shouldn't get married. At least they shouldn't until their understanding opens up and they see what this is really about. Most of the people who participate in conversations like this have not a clue. That goes for men and women. It's just constant bickering back and forth and nothing is resolved. Some of you will never experience "us" because you think too much about "me".

 
Unread 01-09-2010, 05:59 AM
 
943 posts, read 1,723,180 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
That's all well and good. And I honestly wish you the best in your search. But as someone who is in his seventh year of marriage and has been with the same black woman for over a decade let me try to shed some light.

Miss me with that American dream stuff. What I mean is a marriage is not about being upwardly mobile. It is not about keeping up with a social standard based on material wealth (or the appearance of). It is not about who has the better job. It is not about the number of certificates you have hanging on the wall in your home office. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. And I am not trying disrespect the American Dream concept. But college degrees don't sooth arguments. Money doesn't make a man want to rediscover his wife after the seasons of life have brought about change. "Good" schools don't give children character, and they dang sure don't move them to love and respect their parents.

On a personal note my parents were teens when they had me. They never married and broke up soon after I was born. My wife's parents did marry but went through a horrible divorce that tore their family apart. I have a number of half siblings as does my wife. When I look at my wife and our two kids (that were born after we married) I realize this is much bigger than her and I. This is about way more than a checklist of mate qualities. This is about so much more than being "upwardly mobile." For us, this is about changing the direction of our families. My parents never married. My father's parents never married. My mother's parents never married. And by that you can guess the kinds of lives my family members have lived. Yet my son and daughter were born to married mother and father. That may mean nothing to you or anyone else. However, for me that runs deeper than any conversation about mate qualities and education level. The daily decision that my wife and I make to give of ourselves into this union is literally breaking down barriers for our son and daughter. Years from now when I am gone I hope my posterity can look back at my wife and I and say the direction our family line changed with us.

Really, some people shouldn't get married. At least they shouldn't until their understanding opens up and they see what this is really about. Most of the people who participate in conversations like this have not a clue. That goes for men and women. It's just constant bickering back and forth and nothing is resolved. Some of you will never experience "us" because you think too much about "me".
Very well said and I agree 100%!
 
Unread 01-09-2010, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Transition Island
947 posts, read 1,299,358 times
Reputation: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
As a blackman I'm attracted to women of color (any really) but I realize after a hard day at work I would feel comfortable talking to someone who really can relate to all of the BS that went on during the day with the rampant racism that exist in my world. Can you imagine talking to an Asian or Whitewoman about the "black experience?" Now there are some Asian and whitewomen who may have lived around blacks for some time and can relate, but they are far and few in between. Latinas, may be a little more open b/c latino men have that in common with blackmen.
I think that this is one of the reasons that many blackwomen were taught to stay with the brothers b/c they really need their counsel
Yeah!! I agree-your home should be a safe haven where both husband and wife should be available at any time to listen and attend to each others needs and for no one to feel offended by what you may want to speak of regarding something that has happened to you outside of your primary domain, because there will be many days where you will need to come home and vent about some crazy mess that happened at work, store, etc.
 
Unread 01-09-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
14,443 posts, read 8,009,565 times
Reputation: 14560
Single (and looking) Black women need to spend more time and energy on making sure that they are with men who are supportive, good communicators, monogamous and good providers instead of worrying about finding a guy who is going to rock their world sexually.

Sex is an important part of a relationship but a marriage is built on so much more than just sex.
 
Unread 01-09-2010, 02:10 PM
 
Location: NY
182 posts, read 186,397 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
That's all well and good. And I honestly wish you the best in your search. But as someone who is in his seventh year of marriage and has been with the same black woman for over a decade let me try to shed some light.

Miss me with that American dream stuff. What I mean is a marriage is not about being upwardly mobile. It is not about keeping up with a social standard based on material wealth (or the appearance of). It is not about who has the better job. It is not about the number of certificates you have hanging on the wall in your home office. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. And I am not trying disrespect the American Dream concept. But college degrees don't sooth arguments. Money doesn't make a man want to rediscover his wife after the seasons of life have brought about change. "Good" schools don't give children character, and they dang sure don't move them to love and respect their parents.

On a personal note my parents were teens when they had me. They never married and broke up soon after I was born. My wife's parents did marry but went through a horrible divorce that tore their family apart. I have a number of half siblings as does my wife. When I look at my wife and our two kids (that were born after we married) I realize this is much bigger than her and I. This is about way more than a checklist of mate qualities. This is about so much more than being "upwardly mobile." For us, this is about changing the direction of our families. My parents never married. My father's parents never married. My mother's parents never married. And by that you can guess the kinds of lives my family members have lived. Yet my son and daughter were born to married mother and father. That may mean nothing to you or anyone else. However, for me that runs deeper than any conversation about mate qualities and education level. The daily decision that my wife and I make to give of ourselves into this union is literally breaking down barriers for our son and daughter. Years from now when I am gone I hope my posterity can look back at my wife and I and say the direction our family line changed with us.

Really, some people shouldn't get married. At least they shouldn't until their understanding opens up and they see what this is really about. Most of the people who participate in conversations like this have not a clue. That goes for men and women. It's just constant bickering back and forth and nothing is resolved. Some of you will never experience "us" because you think too much about "me".

I appreciate your response, I do see some very good points. However Im fully aware that socioeconomics isnt the most important component in a marrige. I know, and come from families that survive on support and unity. But I must add that Im tired of that being what many Blacks survive on. Yeah, its great that were able to find our way through life focusing on those who we love most. I just feel like we deserve more. I believe that were suppose to do better than the generation before us, in all aspects of life. We already got the hang of being good people, and looking on the bright side when were at the lowest of lows. Its time for us to live well in all areas of life. I must again express that Im completely aware that money, and degrees, dont make good people... but they do make for a more comfortable life. The quality affects the personal relationship in marriges(and families) . When we dont have certain credentials, we dont get certain jobs. When money is tight, couples argue. When they argue, they become stressed... then health becomes an problem, and then you eventually find yourself staring at another money issue. Ups and down are apart life, Im just tired of my people having the same issues...
 
Unread 01-09-2010, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
2,985 posts, read 2,026,779 times
Reputation: 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
That's all well and good. And I honestly wish you the best in your search. But as someone who is in his seventh year of marriage and has been with the same black woman for over a decade let me try to shed some light.

Miss me with that American dream stuff. What I mean is a marriage is not about being upwardly mobile. It is not about keeping up with a social standard based on material wealth (or the appearance of). It is not about who has the better job. It is not about the number of certificates you have hanging on the wall in your home office. There is nothing wrong with any of those things. And I am not trying disrespect the American Dream concept. But college degrees don't sooth arguments. Money doesn't make a man want to rediscover his wife after the seasons of life have brought about change. "Good" schools don't give children character, and they dang sure don't move them to love and respect their parents.

On a personal note my parents were teens when they had me. They never married and broke up soon after I was born. My wife's parents did marry but went through a horrible divorce that tore their family apart. I have a number of half siblings as does my wife. When I look at my wife and our two kids (that were born after we married) I realize this is much bigger than her and I. This is about way more than a checklist of mate qualities. This is about so much more than being "upwardly mobile." For us, this is about changing the direction of our families. My parents never married. My father's parents never married. My mother's parents never married. And by that you can guess the kinds of lives my family members have lived. Yet my son and daughter were born to married mother and father. That may mean nothing to you or anyone else. However, for me that runs deeper than any conversation about mate qualities and education level. The daily decision that my wife and I make to give of ourselves into this union is literally breaking down barriers for our son and daughter. Years from now when I am gone I hope my posterity can look back at my wife and I and say the direction our family line changed with us.

Really, some people shouldn't get married. At least they shouldn't until their understanding opens up and they see what this is really about. Most of the people who participate in conversations like this have not a clue. That goes for men and women. It's just constant bickering back and forth and nothing is resolved. Some of you will never experience "us" because you think too much about "me".


He said it! Not just about "black men" or "the good black men", but about the so-called American Dream, the myth versus the reality. PEOPLE.

Sadly, this thing only allows me to rep once.
 
Unread 01-09-2010, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
22,453 posts, read 17,386,400 times
Reputation: 10361
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeetMeinSTL View Post
There's something about this post that doesn't sit well with me.

It's been proven again and again that that poster is a racist troll.
 
Unread 01-10-2010, 07:12 AM
 
18,355 posts, read 10,252,006 times
Reputation: 12278
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
For us, this is about changing the direction of our families. My parents never married. My father's parents never married. My mother's parents never married. And by that you can guess the kinds of lives my family members have lived. Yet my son and daughter were born to married mother and father. That may mean nothing to you or anyone else. However, for me that runs deeper than any conversation about mate qualities and education level. The daily decision that my wife and I make to give of ourselves into this union is literally breaking down barriers for our son and daughter. Years from now when I am gone I hope my posterity can look back at my wife and I and say the direction our family line changed with us.
That is very moving to read.
 
Unread 01-10-2010, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Southern California
681 posts, read 505,659 times
Reputation: 980
Default Okay, this is really the last time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamgirl84 View Post
I appreciate your response, I do see some very good points. However Im fully aware that socioeconomics isnt the most important component in a marrige. I know, and come from families that survive on support and unity. But I must add that Im tired of that being what many Blacks survive on. Yeah, its great that were able to find our way through life focusing on those who we love most. I just feel like we deserve more. I believe that were suppose to do better than the generation before us, in all aspects of life. We already got the hang of being good people, and looking on the bright side when were at the lowest of lows. Its time for us to live well in all areas of life. I must again express that Im completely aware that money, and degrees, dont make good people... but they do make for a more comfortable life. The quality affects the personal relationship in marriges(and families) . When we dont have certain credentials, we dont get certain jobs. When money is tight, couples argue. When they argue, they become stressed... then health becomes an problem, and then you eventually find yourself staring at another money issue. Ups and down are apart life, Im just tired of my people having the same issues...
I know I said the previous post would be my last. I just felt the need to respond. I hear what you are saying here. My point is it is about more than the financial. Think about it like this. More money and education are great. But many of the people getting the money and the education cannot competently hold down relationships. What happens to the wealth when they die? You have to understand that as a people we will go NO WHERE if we cannot put our families back together. A childless, highly educated woman does not pass her wealth on. Sure you can leave it to a charity, but that is not the same. Most of the greatest wealth in this country has been built and maintained by families. Sam Walton's grandchildren will be billionaires, meanwhile Oprah will never have any children or grandchildren to inherit her money. What happens to Harpo, Inc. after she dies? It will be swallowed up by some corporate conglomerate and ultimately disappear. And there goes her life's work.

Money doesn't make families. Families make money. And families begin with our ability to relate to one another, work together, and compromise for the greater good. I hope you don't think I was attacking you in the previous post. That is never my intent on these threads. I just get so frustrated because this is a BIG problem and it doesn't have to be.

As you go about your life and search for what you are looking for, just remember to keep an open mind.

Last edited by CaliDude1; 01-10-2010 at 08:22 PM..
 
Unread 01-10-2010, 09:37 PM
 
3 posts, read 3,303 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by trishguard View Post
Because we are extremely loyal to black men...even the bad ones.

Well we shouldn't be cause they are not loyal to us. We as black women need to wake up and shake off this thought that our future can only be with a black man.
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