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This is very true. Sometimes they will feign sympathy if it is in their own self interest. I used to help a woman with house cleaning and when I was injured she seemed concerned. But when she wanted something done it was like it never happened and I was supposed to pretend I didn't have a torn up arm, defy the doctor's orders causing further injury and clean her house using one arm.
Some Ns will not brag about themselves but martyr themselves and have their orbit enablers do the bragging for them. I don't feel bad for the Ns but do for the enablers, they are usually damaged and unsophistocated people caught in a web they cannot see. The Ns give them just enough to keep them around for supply and they are none the wiser. If they should catch on the N will freak, blame the victim, and then just find another one like a bee buzzing on to the next flower.
Narcissists do not have the capacity for genuine introspection.
Very excellent points here...LOL...I've been waiting for these statements.
Their poor victims find themselves sucked into to feeling so sorry for the narcissist that they are unable to see just how selfish they are. They buy in, hook, line, and sinker...to their stories. I can't help but wonder if some of those "victims" are closet narcissists themselves, who then feel betrayed when their hero turns on them. This obviously isn't always the case, but I have witnessed this very situation several times. They truly agree with the narcissists points of view, sympathize whole-heartedly with them, join the narcissist in their bashing and berating of the current victim, then are blown away when the very person they've been agreeing with and supporting, turn their claws on them.
They usually have status and reputation. I'll give you that much.
I have to kind of disagree with this statement, as many narcissists can't hold down jobs (work for someone else). They feel as if their skills are worth far more than anyone can pay them. They start their own businesses because they are the only ones capable of making intelligent decisions and they, quite often, can NOT take orders or hold a subordinate position. After all, they're smarter than anyone else...better than everyone else. Therefore, their "status and reputation" are simply figments of their own imagination. Sure they can suck their immediate victims in to their delusions, but once they've provided their services, the victims may find out that they were simply blowhards.
They love having allies. They will praise you to high heavens to get you on their side. According to them, you parted the Red Sea yourself. That is, until they no longer have a use for you, you decide that you no longer want to be in their inner circle for whatever reason (such as you have family issues you need to focus on), or you wisen up to their manipulation.
Then you get to feel their wrath. They are really good about making others look crazy. That's why they want and need allies. When you find yourself on the other end of this behavior, it's frightening. Then you really get to see crazy.
You really do have to fight to restore your peace and your reputation. These people do NOT go away without a fight.
I watched someone on another forum do this 3 times. It was discovered that she was actually a reinvent who had done this many times over before my time "knowing" her, too. Narcissist will build you up just to tear you down.
In my experience with the ex, who is decidedly NPD, there are some commonalities:
a) They're never wrong. Someone else always is.
b) They never apologize for anything.
c) They have entitlement attitudes.
d) They keep book, hold grudges and tell you that you "owe" them.
e) They'll say such things as, "I'll never forgive you!" and they mean it.
f) They're passive dependents in that they'll direct everyone else's labors but perform little or none of their own. Labor is for lesser people.
g) Everyone must go to them. They don't go to others.
h) They're late for everything so they can make a grand entrance. They don't care that it's inconvenienced others.
i) Nothing you have to say is as remotely important or interesting as what they have to say.
j) Truth and reality are for them to define, and not like the rest of us would.
k) They need to be surrounded and "worshipped" by others.
l) If you disagree with them they tell you they hate you.
m) The other person is ALWAYS wrong ~~ about everything, regardless!
And that's just a few for starters.
As DrummerBoy pointed out, in relationships, they have to be the dumper, not the dumpee. Boy, howdy. When the ex left me after 25 years (I couldn't measure up to her of course), she filed for legal separation, only -- keep me on a string but on her terms. Three days later I counter-filed for full divorce. That robbed her of control and what's worse, I, a mere mortal, had just rejected HER! From that moment on she absolutely despised me. She still does and we divorced 15 years ago. The good news is, I've neither seen nor heard from her in about seven years when I got custody of our youngest child away from her and with luck, I never will again.
Great points! BTW sorry about having to live with it for 25 years.
I really appreciate this thread. I worked with an awful woman like this for seven long years! All these things are so true! The gas-lighting, the sympathy if you see it their way, the tune-out if you don't. I developed asthma working in the office there and she told me to "stop coughing and faking it." I do believe that narcissism has to do with a person's childhood - she was the daughter of a C-list actress and I think she spent her childhood mothering her mother. Then in turn, she pretended to be everyone else's mother, too. It was very strange - her two daughters were like ghosts in her presence. Whenever someone took photographs, this woman in her late fifties hogged the camera (!). I have NEVER known any woman like this my entire life...I never had a boss that for seven years, was watching me like a hawk eight hours a day...and I was far from 21 years old.
It was awful. I went to work in a dull rage every day. I went to therapy for a long time. If I hadn't found another job, I'm sure I would be on a variety of anti-depressants and mood elevators, or perhaps even suicidal. At the end I had no self-esteem at all. My boyfriend and family didn't know what to do with me. I kept working things around in my mind thinking of things I should have said, of things I should have done.
I will never forget her. My life is better, but it took a part of me no one will ever understand. Thank God it wasn't a boyfriend, but having a female boss like that is like a living hell!
When I started my new job, it was like three months before I could relax and know that she couldn't come and get me and bring me back to the old job, I was that bad and traumatized.
So true! So they don't have to think about what they have done to others.
They also will seek out inexperienced people for victimization.
That's how they find their victims. But sometimes, they underestimate their prey. They find out that the prey is much stronger than they expected, and is certainly much stronger than themselves.
They try to find a common vein or something about their prey that others will perceive as a weakness. For me, it was due to being a single mom. I was told that I was a great mom. Not to be smug but I already knew that, lol. I do a pretty good job by myself. I didn't need her praise or permission to be or to be labeled as a great mom. I was lavished with attention that honestly made me uncomfortable. I also noticed how I was being slightly recruited to attack other people, some that she seemingly had good friendships with.
When I started to pull away I became an unwilling participant in her antics. I was threatened with imaginary lawyers, cease and desist threats, contacting my employer, and other crazy things. All because I didn't want to be in her inner circle anymore. They absolutely lose it when they are no longer in control, not that she ever was in control.
To the person saying that usually have status and accomplishments, how much of it is from hard work versus being given to them due to manipulation and blackmail? I would guess not a lot.
Seems you're not quite appreciative of how much I have indulged you so far. Exchanging a few emails, where I have answered all of your questions before this little hiccup, doesn't really qualify as "work" on your end. I have yet to have anyone pick apart my every move like this before even meeting and it's a little over the top. Hopefully, you will find someone more accomodating.All the best to you.
I was interested in this because it is obviously a problem that is found in many women and some men. Would they say anything useful?
Right away, they got it wrong:
“So, what exactly IS a narcissist? In short, a narcissist is someone (usually a man, but not always) who is totally self-absorbed to the point where there is no room for anyone else.”
I think they are confusing PUA (who are just exercising the freedom, many women have given them, to pump and dump) with narcissists. In fact, narcissism describes mainly women I know.
Also:
Like most women's studies majors, they failed grade 6 arithmetic and graduated H.S. without further study of math.
"It has been estimated that 1 - 3% of the population is narcissistic. That means that 1 - 3 out of every 10 people."
Basically, if a female poster on CD is shaming men for not being everything they want, need, desire and be willing to grovel to please her, she's likely got a strong narcissistic streak. Doing his best is never enough for them. There is always something he missed. It is all about them, after all.
Few men develop narcissistic tendencies because unlike a large proportion of young women, we don't have parents constantly telling us how great we are and how a "prince charming" will certainly be in our future. Men who do develop this tendency, are usually conditioned by women they date, doing their “best” to snag them. Realizing that they have this power can go to some men’s heads.
Instead, for most men, it’s "Get out and get a job. Work you bum! We don’t want you around here much longer." [Not stated: there are a lot of needy women out there and we don't want you loafing or slacking off] Its often amazing the contrasts in child rearing one can see within families.
That women would then say that most narcissists are men, really says a lot more about the modern women’s movement’s poor grasp of reality and their lack of understanding of what most men are really like, than it says about men.
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