On women, from the perspective of a 24 year old man (kids, sex)

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by picklejuice

LOL! Aren't we all?

Some of us are aware of it, others...not so much.

[Ameribull]

Originally Posted by mehhh

I study physics. The women(of course) don't, but I had to work with them every day. It's a weird situation that, if detailed, would take away anonymity.



You said it yourself. Come on: what does gossip encompass here? More importantly, as I'm sure you agree, some things just don't lend themselves to these types of studies. Nobody could make a reasonably effective case one way or another using anonymous polling here.
The implication that blacks and women have found ways(or rather, been given ways) to cheat around the struggles the type of men who make this country run face is not-so-unordinary. Or bold. nor, when anonymous and not facing the social repercussions of stating ugly truths, particularly controversial. I disagree entirely. The converse is true. P.C.-driven social liberalism defines academia and youth. Unless you mean the more general cliche' of going against the grain for its own sake, which would be a pretty low blow.
Maybe. I think you're under-estimating my ability to fake it, though. And it's not as though I'm faking disdain or some seething hatred; I don't hate women. I just view them as lesser in ways that are important to me.

I disagree. I think an intelligent, objective review of the general male psyche would be flattering all told, using my own moral and intellectual compass. I wouldn't for a moment argue the obvious negatives, which have been mentioned earlier in the thread(physical aggression, and so on. You know em'.) But alas each of these negatives have a very easily defined converse utility in our world. If we weren't so sexually charged as to cheat more often, or even rape more often, the species wouldn't exist. And so on.

We can go blow-for-blow on the negatives all day. I'm just ranting about the real world application of them, and how I have seen it. I'm ranting to express my disappointment, and to see if there is something I haven't picked up on.

You have to care. They encompass half the human population. To not work through this stuff is a mistake.
Unless you're accusing me of going against the grain for it's own sake, as I said earlier, that's just not true. You can make the general argument that being craaaazy in youth is generic, but these arguments and observations are in literal direct contrast to the standard line in youth and in academia. It's a feminist stronghold.
If the relationship between you and I was one of publisher(you)and writer(I), you would have an argument. I think an incorrect one, but you'd have an argument nonetheless. But here you don't, because I'm not trying to be different. I'm not trying to convert, or to sell books, or to claim that i should be interviewed for my unique and considered viewpoint on human relations. That's a low-blow implication/dismissal of what I'm saying. And I think it is missing the point.

What I meant was that if you dont find a woman that meets your standards then so what? Live your own life. It is possbile to be happy without being married for 50 years. But your young still. I felt and to an extent still feel the way you do. I was so discontented with women to the point that it affected my daily life and relationships.

But once I just let it go and started doing my own thing I think people sensed that I was happy. And I met someone awesome. So it will happen.

[mehhh]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

No more than one can rely on singular experience to draw a conclusion. People gossip. I do not come across a lot gossip in the work place, but I did in academia. My advisor, who I was very close with, was a gossip. He was an emotionally challeneged to boot. Frankly, I don't think we should generalize any experience coming out of uni. Or, at least, should do so with caution. It surely exists within a bubble; a warped bubble. Any way, I've come across similar findings this study illustrates. People complain about eachother-big surprise. This is not gender specific.

Is that what I'm doing? Of course not.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

The fact that you note opportunity is something to be given or taken...from the white man...hits the nose on your face, despite your inability to see it.

O.K. A personal shot as a prereq. for the onslaught of an argument, I can take that.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

eta: And lets be clear about something here. Fleshing out the data linked in the other thread didn't cause me to break a sweat. It took all of two minutes. You were simply too lazy to bother, and happy to go along with your uninformed opinions. That is at the crux of these types of issues, and it's certainly not a matter of anyone having to cheat, outside you.

Well damn, the argument didn't come.

To be honest braunwyn I don't remember the data linked in the other thread. I do remember it being it being an interesting but irrelevant aside that you presenting an all-encompassing rebuttal. Perhaps you can dig it up again?

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

The ugly truths are in the data, not subjective opinions. I've linked that Harvard study a number of times on this forum, which highlights gross bias stemming from women and men IRT to the expectations of women, which note siginficantly higher expectations. And how you disagree entirely is beyond me. Your position is so common, it makes up most of human history when it comes to gender. It couldn't be any more generic.

See above.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Again, of course you do and countless other have in the past. And you will probably surround yourself with women that are lesser than you (in your eyes at least). It's not as if women of similar intellect, or those motivated by compassion, will spend their limited days on this planet in relationships that fail before they start (love interests or friendships). You keep the status quo and leave pioneering to those better equipped. As mentioned previously, I hope you keep your attitudes in mind before you decide to breed (providing you don't have a choice in the gender of your brood).

Pioneering=+/- clapping mindlessly at a yammering that does nothing to address why:
women are more petty, driven by incredible insecurity, rendering them largely unable to even consider highly complex thoughts and behaviors outside immediate self-interest(subjective)

can't hold a candle to men in the workplace across-the-board(not-so-subjective, unless you presuppose impenetrable bias as self-evident)

can't digest the levels of information that will propel our species to new levels beyond the pale blue dot(math and science) (not-so-subject, unless...). Indeed, I recall a pretty decent man getting fired for timidly speculating on this topic.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

That's not the accusation at all. You are not going against the grain, tho, you may think you are. What I see is you following suit.

You mention this at least a half-dozen times, even after I mention its irrelevance. I'm not presenting myself as a social revolutionary. No part of what I am saying wishes to be original. If my dissonance here happens to be unique, so be it. If it's boring to you, or unoriginal, that's fine too. It's irrelevant.

And, don't worry, I'm much too selfish to have kids, as one might imagine.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

I'm noting a dope chastising dopey husbands; no more. It's a fair assessment

Circular rhetoric mixed with personal jabs masquerading as an argument with a straight-jab at the end. A lesser man would make a gender joke here.

[mehhh]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Some of us are aware of it, others...not so much.

I, for one, know I suck.


Again I feel like noting, if for no other reason than to ease the tension, that we're just discussing hypothetical theory that will never manifest in anything more than that. I'm not starting a Woman Haters Club or anything, and, like any Good American, I fake it all day. I'm nice to women. I believe very strongly in the in the utility of positivity for my own self-interest. I've even been working on noting in my day-to-day interaction that I could be XYZ if ABC experience happened to me, we're all basically one for any measurable purpose that matters, and so on.

I'm not so bad, braunwyn. Promise.

[le roi]

Have you considered homosexuality? That is typically the route men go, when they really love other men.

[StinaTado]

Originally Posted by rubber_factory

Have you considered homosexuality? That is typically the route men go, when they really love other men.

I think he'll have to- I can't imagine any woman putting up with his nonsense. No good woman would date a man like this. We date men who don't have to fake anything, especially not the kind that pretend to enjoy being around us.

It's pretty clear what this is- it's a physics nerd who is mad he can't get hot girls. Since we don't bask in his obvious superiority, we are clearly morons. It's not like my female friends were published in biochem journals at the age of 20, or that many of us have fulfilling relationships with loving partners. We are obviously like the few hot women who aren't interested in the OP for some inexplicable reason.

[mehhh]

Originally Posted by rubber_factory

Have you considered homosexuality? That is typically the route men go, when they really love other men.

Originally Posted by StinaTado

I think he'll have to- I can't imagine any woman putting up with his nonsense. No good woman would date a man like this. We date men who don't have to fake anything, especially not the kind that pretend to enjoy being around us.

It's pretty clear what this is- it's a physics nerd who is mad he can't get hot girls. Since we don't bask in his obvious superiority, we are clearly morons. It's not like my female friends were published in biochem journals at the age of 20, or that many of us have fulfilling relationships with loving partners. We are obviously like the few hot women who aren't interested in the OP for some inexplicable reason.

A closet homosexual simultaneously frustrated at his inability to garner adoring hot women, while drowning in fat, ugly self-loathing. That's certainly one plausible theory.


Or, could be a dude with self-made money, academic success and a string of sexual trophies almost of as long as -well, long- that has simply made some not-so-flattering observations.

Tis' the internet after all, and I'm certainly not going to produce pictures. If the former scenario helps you sleep better, by all means. I'm a healer.

[mango tango]

I know all about the whole gossip thing. I am in college after all. Many of the girls that I would consider "fun friends" are quite a gossipy bunch.

Here's my take on it:

1. Gossip can be exciting. It lends a sense of excitement (aka drama!) to these girl's lives.

2. Everyone likes being included on a secret. Much of gossip is all about keeping things said in confidence.

3. Some girls use gossip to feel better about themselves. Well, I may be a s h i t student and not know what 2+2 equals, but at least I don't have ugly hair and am single like Betty.

4. Many girls use it as conversation fodder because gossiping is as easy as breathing.

Me? I'd rather talk about something funny, memories, ideas, movies, whatever - but please none of that pointless gossiping. I can understand talking about something if it relates to you, but sitting around talking about someone's whatever or this and that is so mind numbing!

[le roi]

Originally Posted by mehhh

A closet homosexual simultaneously frustrated at his inability to garner adoring hot women, while drowning in fat, ugly self-loathing. That's certainly one plausible theory.

Well, you are awfully critical of women.

I pointed out that you were not equally critical of men, and your response gave me the impression that you think all men are just wonderful.

Or, could be a dude with self-made money, academic success and a string of sexual trophies almost of as long as -well, long- that has simply made some not-so-flattering observations.

Or maybe you are an alien, or really advanced AI, or a goat herder posting from Ulaanbataar. Who cares? I am simply following your statements to their logical conclusions. You adore men.

[yayoi]

mehhh,

How do you define "morality"?