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Old 06-24-2010, 10:31 AM
 
3,261 posts, read 2,669,012 times
Reputation: 3884
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Given that the weak men women despise are the product of feminism, do women ever think that they themselves are greatly helping contribute to creating men they don't desire?
I think you have this backwards, it's the self-proclaimed "weak men" that hate women. Most women I know don't feel they are superior, but feel they have the right to prove their equality. Meaning, I don't begrudge any man who is better at me at something, but at the onset I don't want to be discounted just because I'm a woman. Let both have us have the opportunity to prove our ability and let the better person win. What's so complicated about that?

Quote:
We all grew up with female teachers, where you cannot have a ceompetititve edge in school, you cannot play compettitive sports becaues the losing team's feelings might get hurt..
I'm actually with you in part on this. However, I do not think it has anything to with female teachers but society in general. I don't like the group promotions in school and the PC elimination of class rank. I went to a competetive HS and there was approximately a 60/40 split (men & women respectively) at the time. Everyone needed to qualify to get in, everyone needed to work to be better ranked. I think that results-based system serves people better than a collective pat on the back for effort alone. BTW, my dad was the one who instilled in me that I could do anything I put my mind to do, but that I needed to work to prove myself.

 
Old 06-24-2010, 10:36 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
20,596 posts, read 17,152,315 times
Reputation: 28716
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
You had competitive team sports in elementary school?

All we had was recess, and if a team was winning by too much, the teacher would come up, pick up the kickball, and shout "Everybody wins!"
Yup. Peewee football, Pop Warner, Little League, and AYSO soccer were the most common. In P.E., we played kickball, nationball (like dodgeball, where the POINT is to nail another person with the ball) and basketball. Of course one team won. At recess, we played four-square, handball, and tetherball (I bet everyone who was a kid in the 80s was nailed in the head by a tetherball at least once). Oh yeah, don't forget "Butt's Up," where you had to stand against a wall and dodge a tennis ball thrown at you--get hit enough times, and you had to stand still while your friends got in a few good shots. I've been to my kids' elementary schools plenty of times. All the kids are still rough and rowdy, don't worry.

My high school was well known for its sports stars. Football especially, but also track, baseball, basketball and volleyball. And "back then" is no different from now. My daughter is going into high school and goes to basketball camp. The girls at her games are ruthless, and a few girls skin their knees and get an elbow in the face every time. Her school has tons of competitive sports, including lacrosse and hockey, which weren't as common in California.
 
Old 06-24-2010, 10:39 AM
 
3,261 posts, read 2,669,012 times
Reputation: 3884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
Weak men are the product of their upbringing and their own inherent personality or character flaws--the same as weak women.

Also, just because your teachers were female, that does not mean they set the ridiculous policies you're claiming here. That nonsense was embraced by both men and women, and has more to do with politics than feminism. Frankly, I think the best thing kids of both sexes can learn is how to lose gracefully. Failure happens. Accept it, learn from it, grow from it, improve from it, and move on.

Once you get to be a grown-up, however, all bets are off. Somewhere the light should go on, because part of maturity is being able to take rejection without letting it paralyze you or make you bitter. Not every woman who rejects you is a b*tch. If a man is comfortable in his own skin and has a good life of his own, he'll understand that.
I agree with you totally, especially the bolded.

You can't learn to be a good sport or a good loser if you arent' given the opportunity to win or lose.
 
Old 06-24-2010, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 1,061,875 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
Yup. Peewee football, Pop Warner, Little League, and AYSO soccer were the most common. In P.E., we played kickball, nationball (like dodgeball, where the POINT is to nail another person with the ball) and basketball. Of course one team won. At recess, we played four-square, handball, and tetherball (I bet everyone who was a kid in the 80s was nailed in the head by a tetherball at least once). Oh yeah, don't forget "Butt's Up," where you had to stand against a wall and dodge a tennis ball thrown at you--get hit enough times, and you had to stand still while your friends got in a few good shots. I've been to my kids' elementary schools plenty of times. All the kids are still rough and rowdy, don't worry.

My high school was well known for its sports stars. Football especially, but also track, baseball, basketball and volleyball. And "back then" is no different from now. My daughter is going into high school and goes to basketball camp. The girls at her games are ruthless, and a few girls skin their knees and get an elbow in the face every time. Her school has tons of competitive sports, including lacrosse and hockey, which weren't as common in California.

Well fortunately now they have Title IX which gets rid of money making boys sports and provides more sports for girls. I remember in high school, we had to get rid of so many programs that benefitted boys, or boy sexes, so that they could satisfy title IX and other budgetary restraints. Since they couldn't allow Lacrosse as a school term, we had our own club, bought our equipment, because they money had to be spent on girls' teams.
 
Old 06-24-2010, 10:42 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
20,596 posts, read 17,152,315 times
Reputation: 28716
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Well fortunately now they have Title IX which gets rid of money making boys sports and provides more sports for girls. I remember in high school, we had to get rid of so many programs that benefitted boys, or boy sexes, so that they could satisfy title IX and other budgetary restraints. Since they couldn't allow Lacrosse as a school term, we had our own club, bought our equipment, because they money had to be spent on girls' teams.
I'm sorry you went to a crappy school.
 
Old 06-24-2010, 10:47 AM
 
3,424 posts, read 3,213,011 times
Reputation: 1764
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Well fortunately now they have Title IX which gets rid of money making boys sports and provides more sports for girls. I remember in high school, we had to get rid of so many programs that benefitted boys, or boy sexes, so that they could satisfy title IX and other budgetary restraints. Since they couldn't allow Lacrosse as a school term, we had our own club, bought our equipment, because they money had to be spent on girls' teams.

very true...its happening in colleges as well...I recall a story a few years ago whereby they were trying to take money away from several universities' football programs to reallocate it to female athletics...those female sports recooperated such low revenue/ticket sales that the schools were forced to withdraw the funding anyway...basically, money wasted.

Last edited by solytaire; 06-24-2010 at 11:10 AM..
 
Old 06-24-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
11,995 posts, read 11,358,118 times
Reputation: 13353
Its sad some men feel so much has been taken from them and would still prefer women to be second class in order to feel good about themselves.
 
Old 06-24-2010, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 1,061,875 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Its sad some men feel so much has been taken from them and would still prefer women to be second class in order to feel good about themselves.
Completely wrong. My only issue with anything to do with feminism is more about seeking rights but not responsibilities.

I don't see women out there picketing every day demanding that they have to register with the selective service like I had to do, or risk jail and being denied student loans.
 
Old 06-24-2010, 11:18 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
11,995 posts, read 11,358,118 times
Reputation: 13353
So, you blame woman? You're a lawyer, start a mens movement the way Jo Freeman did for woman in the 60s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Completely wrong. My only issue with anything to do with feminism is more about seeking rights but not responsibilities.

I don't see women out there picketing every day demanding that they have to register with the selective service like I had to do, or risk jail and being denied student loans.
 
Old 06-24-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 1,061,875 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
So, you blame woman? You're a lawyer, start a mens movement the way Jo Freeman did for woman in the 60s.
I blame women for not seeking responsibilities besides just seeking rights.

Notice when women complain that 50% of CEOs aren't women, they neglect that 50% of garbagemen, janitors, etc of "lower end" jobs are not women? Equality is only sought out at the top.

Men have lower life expectancies in many cases because of the dangers of the jobs they work.

I took engineering classes in college, and there are virtually no women in those classes, and there are very few female engineers, though there are more than there were before. Why is there no demand for equality for female engineers? Becaues you cannot force people to take a educational and work career path.
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