Did feminism ruin relationships between men and women? (attractiveness, Illinois, muscle)
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my only problem with feminism is it went about changing the traditional roles of women, while keeping the traditional roles of men in tack. i'm all for equality, but today's feminist seem more about special interests.
Without having read 60+ pages of comments, let me say this:
My wife was one of the original 1960s, bra-burning feminists turned hippie, midwife and political professional, in turn.
I was a cowboy turned combat soldier then state narcotics agent and finally, political professional as well. It's how my wife and I met and neither of us ever held elected office. We were the behind the scenes types.
My wife and I were probably the least likley to ever end up together in the long run but I'd say that the fact that we did belies the contention that feminism "ruined" the relationship between men and women.
In its pure form, feminism was never a gender war. It was simply a reasonable movement directed towards equal pay for equal work and equal career potential. Unfortunately, some took it too far.
I think that all too many men were challenged and intimidated by the feminist movement and too many politicians fanned the fires of separateness for their own benefit.
Shame on those so-called "men" and shame on the politicians.
But now feminism is pursuing myths, like the gender pay gap. It's totally a myth today. In the past it existed for real, but not today. yet you even have obama talk about it in his state of the union address. That's like bringing up manbearpig. It simply doesn't exist, and any disparaties are by choice, and averaging salaries across the board. Sorry, but a part time librarian is not going to make as much as a CEO working 79 hour weeks, and you don't become CEO by working part time. Deal.
I think it's hilarious that there doesn't seem to be room in people's minds for relationships in which both partners approach leading, deferring, etc, from an equal, give-and-take scenerio. Because I know those marriages, too.
Most men can barely lead themselves (not saying most women fare better). It's a different world now, and it's filled with morons of both sexes.
Most of the guys who say feminism ruined everything have this fantasy that if feminism never happened, they'd be coming home every night to a hot wife in a French maid uniform who would wait on him hand and foot while he sits in a recliner playing video games and who would never ever disagree with anything he says. Damn these women who won't settle for that.
Most of the guys who say feminism ruined everything have this fantasy that if feminism never happened, they'd be coming home every night to a hot wife in a French maid uniform who would wait on him hand and foot while he sits in a recliner playing video games and who would never ever disagree with anything he says. Damn these women who won't settle for that.
I think the problem may be that many women want to be a modern woman but want a so-called "old fashioned man" who still keep the traditional roles of men back in the days. As another poster already said, some women want changing the traditional roles of women, while keeping the traditional roles of men in tack.
Most of the guys who say feminism ruined everything have this fantasy that if feminism never happened, they'd be coming home every night to a hot wife in a French maid uniform who would wait on him hand and foot while he sits in a recliner playing video games and who would never ever disagree with anything he says. Damn these women who won't settle for that.
No. The fantasy is that most of our peers would have been raised by both of their parents so the dating field wouldn't be filled with single parent losers. Ultimately, it's the future generations that are going to pay the biggest price.
Also, imagine if our parents were dating, etc today, and instead of when they did. I wouldn't exist, because women today wouldn't give my dad the time of day, but b ack then, you could be like him, and still get married. Now, there are plentyu of mid 30s male virgins who women wouldn't even give the time of day to, that would have gotten married back in the 1950s or 1960s... Do you think society is better off now? Sure, we don't have institutional racism, but we have insane amounts of out of wedlock births, single mothers, lots more crime, middle school girls charge money for oral sex in school. I mean, society is going a bit downhill. Don't you think?
I think the problem may be that many women want to be a modern woman but want a so-called "old fashioned man" who still keep the traditional roles of men back in the days. As another poster already said, some women want changing the traditional roles of women, while keeping the traditional roles of men in tack.
That's true, but I still think that at the core feminism hasn't ruined anything, but it's certainly changed everything (in a similar way to the civil rights movement,) and that's not a bad thing. Both men and women have to redefine how they relate to each other. Nobody should be taking advantage of anyone, and you're right, a woman shouldn't expect to not have to pull her weight in a relationship and expect that she should be treated like a princess just because she's a woman. At the same time, a man shouldn't be surprised that a woman wants to be treated as a partner in a relationship, not a subordinate. It's a brave new world.
You know what I think is ironic?...Amid its cultural feminist tide, the U.S. is concurrently almost entirely reliant on a steady influx of immigrants to sustain its population, and to supplement the population growth that has come to a screeching halt as relationships between American men and women are completely dysfunctional, if not severed altogether....
Yet, with these very immigrants upon which we rely, comes a population with cultures that have not, and will not be dominated by radical feminism...so, as we replenish our population with these cultures, I foresee more perceived oppression of women in this country, as latino, asian and african populations arrive, unwilling to forfeit the male dominance found in those cultures. And in general, the women of those cultures dont quickly adopt western feminist philosophy either; if they adopt them at all.
But these terrible relationships between American men and women will continue until the American woman we see today is extinct, or bred out of existence, as she isnt breeding enough offspring to carry on her philosophical legacy.
We will eventually arrive right back to where we began. Because I suspect that women of other cultures wont seek to continue the reversal of the natural roles of the human sexes, the way American women have. I suspect this, because they havent done so in all of their many more centuries of existence. As soon as all of the American feminist minded women of today die off, and because we arent repopulating at a rate consistent with our rates of death, this cultural phenomenon of radical feminism will die out too.
And thus the fight will end...at least for a while..
Most of the guys who say feminism ruined everything have this fantasy that if feminism never happened, they'd be coming home every night to a hot wife in a French maid uniform who would wait on him hand and foot while he sits in a recliner playing video games and who would never ever disagree with anything he says. Damn these women who won't settle for that.
This is a pretty good discusion about what life woudl be like wtihout feminism.
One thing is for sure, we'd have way less socialism in the west. All that started with women getting the vote, as was pointed out in an earlier post in this very thread.
This is another take one what the world might be like:
Here’s another way of looking at it: what would life be like today if women never got the vote in America?
Assume American women never got the right to vote. What effect would this have had on American and world politics?
1) No prohibition and no repeal. Women’s Temperance League members never get the vote. No gangster era in Chicago. Al Capone dies in a gangland shootout, and gets only a perfunctory notice in the obituary column. The Kennedys never make a fortune from bootlegging.
2) The era of profligate consumer credit that helped create the Great Depression is moderated because men have less pressure to kowtow to their wives’ lust for shopping. They prefer to buy beer instead. The Panic of ‘29 ends by 1935.
3) The New Deal never includes Social Security – male voters do not allow a permanent liability to be assumed to solve a temporary problem.
4) The post-war Baby Boom would still be going on, and the population of the US would be over 400 million, with a lower percentage of Asians and Hispanics (recent immigrants) and a higher percentage of whites and blacks (descendants of less recent immigrants).
5) The UN wins the Korean War because male voters demand nothing less than total victory. Casualties are much higher, though. Mao barely keeps power after loss of face.
6) The ’60s don’t happen in the same way – less drugs, less sex, probably less rock and roll [TOO BAD!]. The Pill is not accepted as an excuse for promiscuous sex by the Patriarchy.
7) The Great Society never happens. Socialized medicine never gets a foothold in the US. Welfare is greatly limited. Welfare mothers remain a pitied minority, even in the inner cities.
8) The US supports South Vietnam after we pull our ground troops out. Saigon never falls. Communism collapses earlier because of increased US resolve and earlier Soviet economic implosion.
9) The space program keeps going after Apollo. Saturn V rockets and their evolutionary descendants keep flying because Vietnam is won, the Great Society never happens, and the prosperity of the ’60s continues for decades. Boys love their toys, and they don’t come any bigger or badder than moon rockets.
10) No JFK presidency because his dad never makes a fortune bootlegging. No assassination. No LBJ. The US military is allowed a free hand in Vietnam. The Wall in Washington is never built, but a traditional memorial in the Greek Revival style is built instead. The President of South Vietnam is the guest of honor at its dedication.
11) Nixon is still a crook, but his election to the presidency occurs in 1960 instead of 1968. He still resigns in disgrace. [We can’t blame this one on feminism.]
12) The 1970s are not an era of drugs, stagflation, and national malaise. They resemble the 1950s, but with better electronics.
13) The Reagan Revolution never happens. He still becomes president, but in the 1970s. He still wins the Cold War, but the Great Society doesn’t need partial dismantling because it was never built in the first place. Iran kidnaps US hostages. The UN passes a resolution demanding their safe return. Iran says no. The Gulf War happens in 1979, except this time it’s Iran. A UN force occupies the oilfields of Iran and tells the Ayatollahs to play nice or their allowance will be cut.
14) The first manned mission to Mars occurs in the 1990s when a nuclear-powered manned spacecraft parks in orbit and sends down an Apollo-style lander.
15) The collapse of the Soviet Union in early 1970s allows Chinese reformers to “retire” Mao early. China becomes semi-capitalist a decade earlier. Hundreds of millions are lifted out of poverty.
16) The US responds to the oil crisis by drilling wells everywhere in US. Old Apollo vets from NASA are put in charge of solving the energy crisis. The US builds 500 nuclear reactors instead of 100. Three Mile Island never happens. OPEC collapses.
17) The collapse of OPEC causes the economic collapse of Saudi Arabia. The Bin Laden family loses its fortune. Osama is forced to stay in the construction business, and remains too busy working to feed his family to switch to the destruction business. 9/11/2001 is just another nice day in NYC.
18) Peace and prosperity sweep the planet, except for the former OPEC nations and Africa, which remains a matriarchy. The illegitimacy rate in Western societies never reaches double digits – peaks at 9%. The Moon colony graduates its first lunar-born high school class in 2003. Asteroid mining using nuclear technology allows Detroit to introduce the first Cadillacs with titanium bodies in 2005. Solar power satellites are launched by the US, but rented out to China. Panicky scientists fret that the reduction of coal usage in China may allow a second Little Ice Age to occur.
19) In 2007, NOW votes to disband. Its members are too busy fussing over numerous grandchildren. Also, they get sick and tired of being hit on by elderly lesbians at every annual meeting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet
Also, imagine if our parents were dating, etc today, and instead of when they did. I wouldn't exist, because women today wouldn't give my dad the time of day, but b ack then, you could be like him, and still get married. Now, there are plentyu of mid 30s male virgins who women wouldn't even give the time of day to, that would have gotten married back in the 1950s or 1960s... Do you think society is better off now? Sure, we don't have institutional racism, but we have insane amounts of out of wedlock births, single mothers, lots more crime, middle school girls charge money for oral sex in school. I mean, society is going a bit downhill. Don't you think?
That's a good point. The old system our parents and grandparents enjoyed ensured betas had sexual access. Today things have changed where it's the alpha thugs and jerkwads that reproduce like rabbits, all the while the solid guys that hold to tradition are being left out in the cold. This is one of the unintended consequences of feminism: it removes sexual access to large swaths of men in society. This is also covered in this entry about the misandry bubble and how feminism is having a negative effect on the output by betas who in the past produced in order to get sexual access to women. Now men don't have to do that and more and more "Peter Pans" are cropping up because of it. Good job radical feminists! /golf clap
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