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That's how thing were in New York, when I was growing up. People used to try that, "You're not black enough" crap with me plenty of times, even whites!!
One of the best things I ever did in my life was get out of inner city New York, probably saved my sanity. I currently live in Maine, and the people here pretty much keep to themselves and have no problem at all, despite me being one of the few blacks in town!!
Pirate -- Ill say it since everybody else is ignoring it: You're not going to get a black woman, or a really much of any other "normal" woman wearing Hello Kitty, Barbie attire etc.
There I said it. I know, I know, you're trying to be true to yourself and express the inner you and all that jazz...thats cool, we all did it in college to an extent...but I suspect that you already know that you're going to be spinning your wheels as long as you're doing so...
Women want the men that other women want...and there are so few women who find grown men donning a Hello Kitty/Barbie get up (or any other kind of perceived gender bending attire) attractive, that the odds dont play in your favor at all. I am willing to bet that by the time you enter the workforce, the Hello Kitty gear will never again see the light of day...I'd bet a dime to a dollar you'll have put it in the back of your closet and it will never resurface again, regardless of how bold you think women perceive you to be...
And they may think you're bold, who knows...but weirdness without confidence is not desireable to women..(Ive found it out the hard way)...it just isnt...and as you've alluded to before, your confidence is nowhere near apparent.
and let me say this, as someone who has overwhelmingly been a loner: I dont know if you're a loner, but if you are, and you're looking for women to accept that, you're in for a long ride...Im not saying this to disuade you from being kind of that esoteric, enigmatic guy that everyone recognizes you as...but the reality is that one of the main functions of male friendships is so that women can size up a man's standing among his own kind (is he the punk of the male species? the take charge guy? the intermediary?..etc.)...it serves a very important function for women...so dont expect the women to come-a-runnin just because you're being you...(not that you arent a good person -- but in the context of luring women, lonerism serves no purpose.)..now, you'll probably say something to the effect of "well, if she doesnt accept me for who I am, and how I like to express myself, then she isnt the one for me"....
While this is true, two things work against you: time, and access to women...unless you move, the type of woman who would accept those things will be scant and scarce. This is acceptable in your 20's and early 30's, but by the time you hit 40, women in that age group will be accepting your eccentrism because they think they have no other options. Which I wouldnt think is a good foundation for a healthy relationship.
anyway, just my opinion...I wish you luck man, and like others have said, you may need to change locations.
lol @ chowhound. I knew that man, just wanted to clear that up. Some people seem to think that it would be hell for me living up here, I have been here nearly 12 years, and have no problems!!
Pirate -- Ill say it since everybody else is ignoring it: You're not going to get a black woman, or a really much of any other "normal" woman wearing Hello Kitty, Barbie attire etc.
There I said it. I know, I know, you're trying to be true to yourself and express the inner you and all that jazz...thats cool, we all did it in college to an extent...but I suspect that you already know that you're going to be spinning your wheels as long as you're doing so...
Women want the men that other women want...and there are so few women who find grown men donning a Hello Kitty/Barbie get up (or any other kind of perceived gender bending attire) attractive, that the odds dont play in your favor at all. I am willing to bet that by the time you enter the workforce, the Hello Kitty gear will never again see the light of day...I'd bet a dime to a dollar you'll have put it in the back of your closet and it will never resurface again, regardless of how bold you think women perceive you to be...
And they may think you're bold, who knows...but weirdness without confidence is not desireable to women..(Ive found it out the hard way)...it just isnt...and as you've alluded to before, your confidence is nowhere near apparent.
and let me say this, as someone who has overwhelmingly been a loner: I dont know if you're a loner, but if you are, and you're looking for women to accept that, you're in for a long ride...Im not saying this to disuade you from being kind of that esoteric, enigmatic guy that everyone recognizes you as...but the reality is that one of the main functions of male friendships is so that women can size up a man's standing among his own kind (is he the punk of the male species? the take charge guy? the intermediary?..etc.)...it serves a very important function for women...so dont expect the women to come-a-runnin just because you're being you...(not that you arent a good person -- but in the context of luring women, lonerism serves no purpose.)..now, you'll probably say something to the effect of "well, if she doesnt accept me for who I am, and how I like to express myself, then she isnt the one for me"....
While this is true, two things work against you: time, and access to women...unless you move, the type of woman who would accept those things will be scant and scarce. This is acceptable in your 20's and early 30's, but by the time you hit 40, women in that age group will be accepting your eccentrism because they think they have no other options. Which I wouldnt think is a good foundation for a healthy relationship.
anyway, just my opinion...I wish you luck man, and like others have said, you may need to change locations.
I knew there would be women out there who would be turned off by the Hello Kitty thing. For me, Hello Kitty is actually more of an Otaku subculture thing for me. I don't wear Hello Kitty shirts, but I do have a Hello Kitty keychain and a decal on my bicycle helmet. BTW, I can't stand Barbie. If I have children, I don't want them aspiring to that.
Women wanting men other women want, well, I have seen it in the TV shows, and even amongst some women, but I have never really paid much attention to it.
For me, getting something having to do with Hello Kitty was well, more a fact of not being afraid. I had always been told I had to live up to certain things, but I kind of knew what I liked. I was tired of what society's definition of me was and went with what I liked in this case.
Am I a loner? Well, I have gone through many periods of being a loner and times of being around alot of people. To be honest, it varies alot. If I do hang out with a group of people, it is usually me, my roommate, his girlfriend, and my other roommate, alot with a few of their friends. Other times I hang out with another friend of mine. Mostly, I have retained some of my "drifter" personality from high school. I am not a "loner" in the sense of constantly being alone or not being around alot of people, but usually, I am hanging out with people who kind of "get me". I have a friend who likes to go clubbing. I usually go to hang out with him, but due to crowding(and my own ideas), I could be around him one minute and be somewhere else in the next.
Am I a loner, well, I don't consider myself to be one. I just don't always talk much, but when I do, I tend to want to talk about things I know. Usually, I am most likely a loner when I go to coffee shops. Part of it has to do with having my own schedule and not knowing who does what at which time. In that instance, I just do my own thing.
Confidence, well, I do remember a time when I started out as friends with this particular woman. She was about 3 years younger than me. I was 21 and she was 18. I never had the guts to tell her I wanted to date her. My big fear was her rejecting me and telling me what kind of guy she was looking for. In the end, she ended up telling me I was "clingy". Actually, I had to drag the answer out of her because she seemed increasingly distant towards me. After that, we never spoke again. This was two years ago. This happened when some people were dealing with me in a passive-aggressive manner. Maybe that has done some things to my confidence. I don't know.
I have thought about changing locations for a long time. To be honest, school and the economy are keeping me where I am now. Once I graduate college, I do plan on leaving.
it really has nothing to do with one bad male apple spoiling the bunch. The liberation of women and their ongoing struggle for independence and equality has practically destroyed the notion of romance and chivalry. Men aren't allowed to be men anymore, unless you're gay and willing to be totally submissive, tail between legs, to the ultra-dominant, feminist woman, straight or lesbian. I send flowers to the women in my family, nobody else. I rarely send flowers or surprise gifts to any woman, unless she's a knockout tremendous physical specimen. I don't mind taking a chance in order to seeks the truths about the woman i'm pursuing. The hope is always that the quality of the woman on the inside matches the physical quality and beauty from the outside. When i'm dating, i don't send gifts of any kind until at least one year into the relationship when i know she'll appreciate my gesture and we're practically exclusive to each other. Why sends flowers or gifts to a chick that's probably getting the same stuff from other men, often not appreciating the honest effort put forth by the nice guy? Women these days are more inclined to send flowers back to the source destination in fear of not wanting to "lead on" the interested male, especially if she's not interested in him for whatever reasons. Some send flowers back because the guy who sent them may not meet her physical requirements, hence he passed off as a creep anyways. Besides, women send each other flowers at random, perhaps getting the romance they so desire from the men who used to be romantic but not anymore. Fine by me.
I concur with this. It's the same in the city of DC. where most non-blacks see all black men as monsters and savages, and where most blacks who are part of "the community" see non-ghetto blacks as weak beta males by default.
To pirate_lafitte, though you really need a confidence booster, I feel as if you also need to get out of an area where blacks are seen and/or expected to be thugs. That can damper any man's self-esteem particularly if they don't have some sort of subculture who cherishes their personality. There are places, like Seattle (where you're formerly from) that aren't as bad towards blacks, so there goes a clutch. If nothing else, you can finally start working on some things that will rid you of your fears and hence boost your confidence level.
Fairfaxian, I would admit to being somewhat shy around women I haven't met, although many times I try not to let women know that. I think you and I are thinking on the same wavelength. I have considered that where I am living is having an impact. Race relations in metropolitan Atlanta can very. I went from a place where they were alright to being in a place where I had some scary experiences.
Interestingly enough, the "nerd" subculture, for me at least, has proven to be the most accepting of Blacks who don't fit the stereotypes expected of them. At my university, there is a place that is called "nerd zone", which is mainly where gamers and "computer nerds" hang out. I see a sizeable concentration of African-Americans who are a bit like me. All of them are males. While I haven't met any women I might want to date, it is one of the bright spots for me.
Seattle is among the list of places I want to relocate to after college. I have been in metropolitan Atlanta since 1996 and I would like a change in geography. It all depends on where I get a job.
As for Atlanta, things tend to vary as far as race relations are concerned. One thing I notice, it isn't always people between the ages of 30-45 I get the most flack from. Actually, I get no flack from people in that age range. It has mainly been anyone under 25. Not everyone here is horrible. However, there is this idea of Blacks being expected to live up to stereotypes. In some cases, it is out loud. In alot of cases, it is just hidden. In Atlanta it varies alot. As for where I am, the fact that I am in the South could be a big factor in general.
To brooklynight, I have experienced some of what you experienced. I understand where you are coming from. I have been pegged as "not being Black enough", and not just by some of the Black kids. Some of the White kids would do it as well. Oddly enough, it was usually White kids who were as preppy as me who would do such dumb things.
Last edited by green_mariner; 03-15-2010 at 01:55 AM..
I knew there would be women out there who would be turned off by the Hello Kitty thing. For me, Hello Kitty is actually more of an Otaku subculture thing for me. I don't wear Hello Kitty shirts, but I do have a Hello Kitty keychain and a decal on my bicycle helmet. BTW, I can't stand Barbie. If I have children, I don't want them aspiring to that.
Women wanting men other women want, well, I have seen it in the TV shows, and even amongst some women, but I have never really paid much attention to it.
For me, getting something having to do with Hello Kitty was well, more a fact of not being afraid. I had always been told I had to live up to certain things, but I kind of knew what I liked. I was tired of what society's definition of me was and went with what I liked in this case.
Am I a loner? Well, I have gone through many periods of being a loner and times of being around alot of people. To be honest, it varies alot. If I do hang out with a group of people, it is usually me, my roommate, his girlfriend, and my other roommate, alot with a few of their friends. Other times I hang out with another friend of mine. Mostly, I have retained some of my "drifter" personality from high school. I am not a "loner" in the sense of constantly being alone or not being around alot of people, but usually, I am hanging out with people who kind of "get me". I have a friend who likes to go clubbing. I usually go to hang out with him, but due to crowding(and my own ideas), I could be around him one minute and be somewhere else in the next.
Am I a loner, well, I don't consider myself to be one. I just don't always talk much, but when I do, I tend to want to talk about things I know. Usually, I am most likely a loner when I go to coffee shops. Part of it has to do with having my own schedule and not knowing who does what at which time. In that instance, I just do my own thing.
Confidence, well, I do remember a time when I started out as friends with this particular woman. She was about 3 years younger than me. I was 21 and she was 18. I never had the guts to tell her I wanted to date her. My big fear was her rejecting me and telling me what kind of guy she was looking for. In the end, she ended up telling me I was "clingy". Actually, I had to drag the answer out of her because she seemed increasingly distant towards me. After that, we never spoke again. This was two years ago. This happened when some people were dealing with me in a passive-aggressive manner. Maybe that has done some things to my confidence. I don't know.
I have thought about changing locations for a long time. To be honest, school and the economy are keeping me where I am now. Once I graduate college, I do plan on leaving.
Oh ok...I think I might have misinterpreted the Hello Kitty thing...I thought you were walking around in like Hello Kitty onesies and capries or something just to make a "fashion statement"...I mean even if you were, thats cool, but I just dont think that sort of thing attracts women...you must remember, no matter what society tells you, women are not daring nor leaders by nature...they can learn to be such, but they would rather you do the daring...so they wont just strike up a conversation with someone who doesnt appear "safe"...(safe for their image/reputation, safe for their physical well being)...I dont care how nice you are...it isnt women's nature to gravitate towards the standoffish or over the top different guy..
But I dont think a keychain or other small accoutrement is anything that would raise suspicions...that said: If Im not mistaken, you only like to be around people because your friends want to be around other people. I think you are well on your way to becoming a loner. since you naturally dont talk much, you stay afloat socially solely because you're in school...I was the same way...once school is over, you will likely struggle to maintain your network of friends, and new friends will be virtually impossible to make.
There are a couple of reasons that this will be regretful when you graduate...1) For some reason, today's potential employers LOVE social butterflies..and in interviews they can sense when you arent one. 2) As you and your friends splinter off into different directions after graduation, your underdeveloped social skills will leave you ill equipped to initiate new relationships...let me tell you this: you wont have any atmosphere as pregnant with prospects and promise as the opportunities you have when you're in school...school acts as a convening grounds for semi-like minded folks...when you finish school, if you dont have a large network of friends/social acquaintances, then you likely wont have one at all.
Now, you dont have to take any of this into consideration if you're truly comfortable being the different guy...but one thing about it, if your confidence is low now, when you withdraw from the social environment (which seems likely to be the case when you graduate, and since you understandably steer clear of crowds), it wont get much better.
Personally, I have resigned and happily resolved a life of solitude...it can be cool...but Ive read on other threads where you were seemingly borderline depressed about your situation (which is typical for serious college students), and still other times you expressed that you wanted a girlfriend of some sort.. Well, I say that being a success in school should be, and I believe it is the top priority for you -- but leveraging the advantages of your school environment to strengthen social skills (ie, start talking) and build your confidence should be a very close second priority...Because after college, the only regular contact you'll have with people will be with your coworkers..and remember, you need social skills to get a job nowdays.
Not trying to predict doom and gloom..but as someone who rarely talked/socialized (literally only interacted with professors), if I could do it over, I would learn to project more confidence and network more.
Last edited by solytaire; 03-15-2010 at 01:13 AM..
Oh ok...I think I might have misinterpreted the Hello Kitty thing...I thought you were walking around in like Hello Kitty onesies and capries or something just to make a "fashion statement"...I mean even if you were, thats cool, but I just dont think that sort of thing attracts women...you must remember, no matter what society tells you, women are not daring nor leaders by nature...they can learn to be such, but they would rather you do the daring...so they wont just strike up a conversation with someone who doesnt appear "safe"...(safe for their image/reputation, safe for their physical well being)...I dont care how nice you are...it isnt women's nature to gravitate towards the standoffish or over the top different guy..
Quote:
But I dont think a keychain or other small accoutrement is anything that would raise suspicions...that said: If Im not mistaken, you only like to be around people because your friends want to be around other people. I think you are well on your way to becoming a loner. since you naturally dont talk much, you stay afloat socially solely because you're in school...I was the same way...once school is over, you will likely struggle to maintain your network of friends, and new friends will be virtually impossible to make.
Quote:
There are a couple of reasons that this will be regretful when you graduate...1) For some reason, today's potential employers LOVE social butterflies..and in interviews they can sense when you arent one. 2) As you and your friends splinter off into different directions after graduation, your underdeveloped social skills will leave you ill equipped to initiate new relationships...let me tell you this: you wont have any atmosphere as pregnant with prospects and promise as the opportunities you have when you're in school...school acts as a convening grounds for semi-like minded folks...when you finish school, if you dont have a large network of friends/social acquaintances, then you likely wont have one at all.
Now, you dont have to take any of this into consideration if you're truly comfortable being the different guy...but one thing about it, if your confidence is low now, when you withdraw from the social environment (which seems likely to be the case when you graduate, and since you understandably steer clear of crowds), it wont get much better.
Personally, I have resigned and happily resolved a life of solitude...it can be cool...but Ive read on other threads where you were seemingly borderline depressed about your situation (which is typical for serious college students), and still other times you expressed that you wanted a girlfriend of some sort.. Well, I say that being a success in school should be, and I believe it is the top priority for you -- but leveraging the advantages of your school environment to strengthen social skills (ie, start talking) and build your confidence should be a very close second priority...Because after college, the only regular contact you'll have with people will be with your coworkers..and remember, you need social skills to get a job nowdays.
Not trying to predict doom and gloom..but as someone who rarely talked/socialized (literally only interacted with professors), if I could do it over, I would learn to project more confidence and network more.
I didn't know some people would misinterpret it. I do not do capries or onesies. I have a Hello Kitty keychain and a Hello Kitty sticker on my helmet. This is for future references just in case anyone asks or has any misconceptions. As for women being not being natural-born leaders, I would have never guessed. Usually, this is how I do things. I use the best thing I know how to do: I let my true self shine, even if I can have moments of shyness. Personally, I don't know how all women work, because women are different from person to person. I don't know how a person will react to me just striking up a conversation. It goes back to when I was in the 1990's. It didn't seem all that easy to meet women back then, but I never had this idea of people being scared of one another. Nowadays, I have to keep that in mind.
Usually, I don't try to be standoffish. It just happens sometimes because I could be around a group of people, and the subject of conversation is something I don't know anything about it. For that reason, I don't just jump in.
As for the loner situation, I often go out in public alone because I don't know what anyone else is doing. I will admit, when I see people in cliques, I feel a bit intimidated,especially if I don't know the persons. If I know of the persons but never talk to them,same result. It usually amplifies if the subject of conversation is nothing I know about or have any interest in. If I am in public among friends, I usually stick with them, unless someone comes up to me. In some cases(like the clubs), I try(but usually intimidated about it) to branch out on my own.
After college is something that has given me something to think about. What you mentioned in reason #2 is already happening now. Alot of people I knew from my freshman year are off doing their own thing, and in many cases I feel forgotten about. I am trying keep my classes in line. I feel that a college degree is necessary. I took a year off from school because of medical problems. When I returned to school(which was summer 2009), some of my old social networks were diminshed. During my time out of school, I found getting a job to be nearly impossible. Whatever I could find involved telemarketing. I am back and in pursuit of a bachelor's degree. I have actually been unemployed since January 2008. The one thing that scares me is the fact that since age 18, I have been unemployed more than I have been employed, not to mention never working more than 3 months at a time. Until now, I knew about the "it's who you know" thing. Apart from that, the thing that scared me was lack of experience. I didn't know some of the other stuff. College is actually the one thing keeping me afloat. Basically, school is very important to me at this point. With that said, I will admit, I do get depressed seeing my roommate and his girlfriend together,and seeing other people in relationships. I do get depressed when I think about my freshman year and how much things have changed since then.
As for the original question why men don't pursue women? Well, reasons vary. For a long time, I gave up because of things that happened to me. Nowadays, I am slowly trying to work my way back into things.
As for the loner situation, I often go out in public alone because I don't know what anyone else is doing. I will admit, when I see people in cliques, I feel a bit intimidated,especially if I don't know the persons. If I know of the persons but never talk to them,same result. It usually amplifies if the subject of conversation is nothing I know about or have any interest in. If I am in public among friends, I usually stick with them, unless someone comes up to me. In some cases(like the clubs), I try(but usually intimidated about it) to branch out on my own.
After college is something that has given me something to think about. What you mentioned in reason #2 is already happening now. Alot of people I knew from my freshman year are off doing their own thing, and in many cases I feel forgotten about. I am trying keep my classes in line. I feel that a college degree is necessary. I took a year off from school because of medical problems. When I returned to school(which was summer 2009), some of my old social networks were diminshed. During my time out of school, I found getting a job to be nearly impossible. Whatever I could find involved telemarketing. I am back and in pursuit of a bachelor's degree. I have actually been unemployed since January 2008. The one thing that scares me is the fact that since age 18, I have been unemployed more than I have been employed, not to mention never working more than 3 months at a time. Until now, I knew about the "it's who you know" thing. Apart from that, the thing that scared me was lack of experience. I didn't know some of the other stuff. College is actually the one thing keeping me afloat. Basically, school is very important to me at this point. With that said, I will admit, I do get depressed seeing my roommate and his girlfriend together,and seeing other people in relationships. I do get depressed when I think about my freshman year and how much things have changed since then.
You have your priorities right...rather you only have one priority, which as someone who was the exact same way during school, I think is a major pratfall...
Even if its not dating per se, I would advise you to put yourself out there more, regardless of the risk of rejection you perceive. Again, not even with the emphasis of dating in mind. If its only speaking to classmates more often... Im only saying this because I know personally that it can get VERY comfortable slipping into the tunnel vision of academics. "Nothing else matters...Im just so focused on school..." and all that jazz..
Well when school ends, you'll find yourself with an excess of time on your hands and seriously undersocialized...at least I did, you may fair better..
I actually think that getting an intership or a job, while you are in school would be very constructive for your social skills. Its possible to hold a little part time job while completing your school objective. It wont be easy by any stretch but it is possible. Plus, just being honest, you will need experience nowdays to get a job. No two ways about it...and it has nothing to do with your competence, but employers keep priapismic hard ons for experienced candidates. Not trying to scare you but thats one suggestion that I really hold steadfast about.
Well, Im obviously no life couselor, and i didnt mean to derail the thread into an abstract outlining The Perils of Pirate Lafitte. But there are a few potentially hazardous parallels that I cant help but notice between my social experience in school and your own so far.
You have your priorities right...rather you only have one priority, which as someone who was the exact same way during school, I think is a major pratfall...
Even if its not dating per se, I would advise you to put yourself out there more, regardless of the risk of rejection you perceive. Again, not even with the emphasis of dating in mind. If its only speaking to classmates more often... Im only saying this because I know personally that it can get VERY comfortable slipping into the tunnel vision of academics. "Nothing else matters...Im just so focused on school..." and all that jazz..
Well when school ends, you'll find yourself with an excess of time on your hands and seriously undersocialized...at least I did, you may fair better..
I actually think that getting an intership or a job, while you are in school would be very constructive for your social skills. Its possible to hold a little part time job while completing your school objective. It wont be easy by any stretch but it is possible. Plus, just being honest, you will need experience nowdays to get a job. No two ways about it...and it has nothing to do with your competence, but employers keep priapismic hard ons for experienced candidates. Not trying to scare you but thats one suggestion that I really hold steadfast about.
Well, Im obviously no life couselor, and i didnt mean to derail the thread into an abstract outlining The Perils of Pirate Lafitte. But there are a few potentially hazardous parallels that I cant help but notice between my social experience in school and your own so far.
I understand. I am still holding out for a decent woman. I know there are some decent women out there.
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