U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 03-05-2010, 02:23 PM
 
24,801 posts, read 26,199,624 times
Reputation: 33277
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
I would never presume to tell you what you have experienced or whether your observations are valid for you.

However, I have seen lives turned around dramatically through recovery. Merely going to meetings and working steps is not the whole story when one is on a path of recovery. It must involve a complete revolution of a person's psyche. I agree with you that recovering alcoholics/addicts rarely do achieve a thorough transformation, but those who do are extraordinary people who are role models even to the best of those who have never experienced addiction.

By going through addiction, we are confronted with all the character defects that were present prior to our addictive behavior. I would never have recognized how full of BS I was in the past were it not for my alcoholic phase. Being brought to the lowest place possible in my life, which culminated in my lying in a secluded cave, washing a few bottles of pills down the hatch with a pint of vodka, changed my life for the better.

I've been humbled beyond anything that was possible before. I now see how arrogant I was even during the years when I was adored by many people and I had a successful and admirable life. I aspire, through practicing the Steps and through my new Buddhist practice, to see clearly the way things actually are rather than imposing my self-centered interpretation on reality. I now have compassion for people toward whom I previously felt animosity. I'm more patient. If I'm in a hurry and the light turns red, I give thanks for the people for whom the light turned green on the other street. In every aspect of my life I seek to put others before myself.

The process is life-long and I'll never pretend to be better than you or anyone else. I caused tremendous harm through my past selfish behavior. The best I can do is to live in the present moment and cultivate a loving attitude towards others.

Please keep an open mind to the possibility that not all 12-steppers or others in recovery are as you've experienced. There are some gems out there who are making the world a better place even though they ruined lives in the past. People can change.
Thank you for that. And we admire you for your courage. Yet, you're not the kind of person we're really talking about. In my original post on my thread, I discussed people who quietly go about their recovery as admirable and worth our compassion and respect.

I think the tangent I went on are the ones who become such devotees of their treatment that they insist on putting everything and everybody in the 12-Step box. For example one post on this thread came up with the bizarre argument that if you think nothing is wrong with you, even if you're living a normal life, then chances are that you need help. Kind of a weird Catch 22.

This, of course, is arrogant and insidious at the same time, because it puts everybody onto the same level of dysfunction regardless of life circumstances. I don't know. Maybe the person in question feels a need to tear everybody down to her level in order to make her feel better about herself. So, in effect, that person is arrogant to accuse others of arrogance.

Then there are the people who think that EVERYBODY should take part in these programs, and that everybody is about to plunge into addiction themselves. These are the ones who never think for a moment that perhaps most people have learned to control their appetites and behavior in life.

Last edited by cpg35223; 03-05-2010 at 02:59 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-05-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: My Private Island
4,928 posts, read 4,467,281 times
Reputation: 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
I would never presume to tell you what you have experienced or whether your observations are valid for you.

However, I have seen lives turned around dramatically through recovery. Merely going to meetings and working steps is not the whole story when one is on a path of recovery. It must involve a complete revolution of a person's psyche. I agree with you that recovering alcoholics/addicts rarely do achieve a thorough transformation, but those who do are extraordinary people who are role models even to the best of those who have never experienced addiction.

By going through addiction, we are confronted with all the character defects that were present prior to our addictive behavior. I would never have recognized how full of BS I was in the past were it not for my alcoholic phase. Being brought to the lowest place possible in my life, which culminated in my lying in a secluded cave, washing a few bottles of pills down the hatch with a pint of vodka, changed my life for the better.

I've been humbled beyond anything that was possible before. I now see how arrogant I was even during the years when I was adored by many people and I had a successful and admirable life. I aspire, through practicing the Steps and through my new Buddhist practice, to see clearly the way things actually are rather than imposing my self-centered interpretation on reality. I now have compassion for people toward whom I previously felt animosity. I'm more patient. If I'm in a hurry and the light turns red, I give thanks for the people for whom the light turned green on the other street. In every aspect of my life I seek to put others before myself.

The process is life-long and I'll never pretend to be better than you or anyone else. I caused tremendous harm through my past selfish behavior. The best I can do is to live in the present moment and cultivate a loving attitude towards others.

Please keep an open mind to the possibility that not all 12-steppers or others in recovery are as you've experienced. There are some gems out there who are making the world a better place even though they ruined lives in the past. People can change.
This is the determining factor between those who succeed at beating additiction and those who don't.

Well said and I wish you all the best your new found life has to offer!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2010, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Mile High City
10,296 posts, read 10,991,998 times
Reputation: 8897
No
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2010, 07:01 PM
 
Location: lala land
1,581 posts, read 1,989,617 times
Reputation: 1056
Yes I would. But I would be careful about starting a family with someone with addiction problems.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2010, 08:37 PM
 
25,085 posts, read 8,553,551 times
Reputation: 41589
U know that's an interesting question. I am totally into giving second chances to those who merit them. However, I dated a guy recovering and he was stable and doing the things he needed to do, but at some point he fell off the wagon. I didn't stop dating him immediately, but when I determined I could not help, I couldn't let him bring me down... Based on that experience I would be very cautious about getting involved with a recovering addict. I would need to be sure the recovery was very advanced.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2010, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
680 posts, read 762,917 times
Reputation: 488
My feeling about the vast majority of responses in this thread is that there is a lot of wisdom in them. To recklessly date addicts is foolish and self-destructive. To be 100% closed to the idea is limiting in terms of possibly closing off a potentially great person from your life. Most responses have been cautious, recognizing that there is added risk and potential for complications with an addict and therefore there must be added assurances that the person has truly gained a strong footing in recovery.

Taking myself as an example, I'd say that any non-addict who would date me is a person I wouldn't want to date because you'd either be an enabler/codependent who is attracted to addicts, or you'd have some other serious issues. And I wouldn't want to date a recovering addict unless she had years of very good sobriety and I felt confident that she had resolved most of the emotional and psychological issues that are part of the life of an addict.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2010, 06:27 AM
 
27,393 posts, read 20,743,117 times
Reputation: 24758
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
I would never presume to tell you what you have experienced or whether your observations are valid for you.

However, I have seen lives turned around dramatically through recovery. Merely going to meetings and working steps is not the whole story when one is on a path of recovery. It must involve a complete revolution of a person's psyche. I agree with you that recovering alcoholics/addicts rarely do achieve a thorough transformation, but those who do are extraordinary people who are role models even to the best of those who have never experienced addiction.

By going through addiction, we are confronted with all the character defects that were present prior to our addictive behavior. I would never have recognized how full of BS I was in the past were it not for my alcoholic phase. Being brought to the lowest place possible in my life, which culminated in my lying in a secluded cave, washing a few bottles of pills down the hatch with a pint of vodka, changed my life for the better.

I've been humbled beyond anything that was possible before. I now see how arrogant I was even during the years when I was adored by many people and I had a successful and admirable life. I aspire, through practicing the Steps and through my new Buddhist practice, to see clearly the way things actually are rather than imposing my self-centered interpretation on reality. I now have compassion for people toward whom I previously felt animosity. I'm more patient. If I'm in a hurry and the light turns red, I give thanks for the people for whom the light turned green on the other street. In every aspect of my life I seek to put others before myself.

The process is life-long and I'll never pretend to be better than you or anyone else. I caused tremendous harm through my past selfish behavior. The best I can do is to live in the present moment and cultivate a loving attitude towards others.

Please keep an open mind to the possibility that not all 12-steppers or others in recovery are as you've experienced. There are some gems out there who are making the world a better place even though they ruined lives in the past. People can change.
I am happy to hear that you have been able to overcome the odds, and I wish you the best as you continue on your journey. I agree that it's not impossible for addicts to change, as you demonstrate. It's just not common.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2010, 06:42 AM
 
27,393 posts, read 20,743,117 times
Reputation: 24758
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
My feeling about the vast majority of responses in this thread is that there is a lot of wisdom in them. To recklessly date addicts is foolish and self-destructive. To be 100% closed to the idea is limiting in terms of possibly closing off a potentially great person from your life. Most responses have been cautious, recognizing that there is added risk and potential for complications with an addict and therefore there must be added assurances that the person has truly gained a strong footing in recovery.

Taking myself as an example, I'd say that any non-addict who would date me is a person I wouldn't want to date because you'd either be an enabler/codependent who is attracted to addicts, or you'd have some other serious issues. And I wouldn't want to date a recovering addict unless she had years of very good sobriety and I felt confident that she had resolved most of the emotional and psychological issues that are part of the life of an addict.
I do know of a couple who seems to have beat some of the odds. She has about 25 years of sobriety, he about 12. They start their days off with a 7 a.m. meeting together, but also have reached into other self-growth areas and live rich, full lives. Good for you for staying away from the codie types. As one of them, I have had to refrain from seeking relationships because when I began to date again post-divorce, I found I chose people with substance problems even when they did not appear to be so on the surface. And I am someone who has undergone therapy and knows the codependent routine inside and out.

Solitude is not a bad thing. It will always bother me from time to time that I will likely die without having experienced a truly good relationship, but I know from experience that no relationship is better than a bad one. Except perhaps as a learning experience, but I've graduated from that course.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: I'm around here someplace :)
1,667 posts, read 1,972,214 times
Reputation: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
For those of you who have never had a problem with drug or alcohol addiction, would you feel OK about dating someone who had that problem in their history but had been free of it for at least a couple years? How long would they have to be sober before you'd be OK with it, if ever?

If you were able to get involved with a recovering addict/alcoholic, would you constantly worry about them relapsing?
been there, done that = huge mistake...

I've found: it's not "about" the alcohol/drugs- the "mess factor" are the attitudes & behaviors- and many have very long periods of clean/sober time without changing one iota.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
680 posts, read 762,917 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Good for you for staying away from the codie types. As one of them, I have had to refrain from seeking relationships because when I began to date again post-divorce, I found I chose people with substance problems even when they did not appear to be so on the surface.
I must confess that, while I'm aware of the dangers of dating a co, I do find them appealing because of the delicious sick dynamic that develops between the addict and the enabler. I also have a weakness for people who are bipolar and those with borderline personality disorder. It's all part of the mentality of an addict, to seek people and situations that are dramatic and distract from the pain of being alone with my delusional mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia 914 View Post
I've found: it's not "about" the alcohol/drugs- the "mess factor" are the attitudes & behaviors- and many have very long periods of clean/sober time without changing one iota.
As you can see by what I just posted above, there would certainly be a risk in dating me for anyone who desires a peaceful life of emotional stability. I'm most likely to get involved with a fellow addict in recovery. Fortunately I've met a lot of beautiful, brilliant and emotionally healthy women in recovery.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top