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Old 03-05-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
44,312 posts, read 19,982,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genx View Post
Politeness is a major turn on for me. It can make someone quite ordinary appear gorgeous and like a 10 in my book. Definitely not a weakness. Combined with how you carry yourself as well. Yes, some people are meek but when you're a strong man who obviously has self-confidence but is polite and courteous - nothing is sexier!
OMG, I agree 100% with this post! I find politeness and courtesy a total turn-on. My man gets extra points for opening a car door for me. Old fashioned, but I really do like that!
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:33 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,622,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
So a child who has been abused by an adult should always stand when that adult comes in the room? I doubt Emily Post would be able to answer that easily.
Do you mean while he is still a child, or later, when the child is grown up and facing his parents?

I read Judith Martin (Miss Manners), not Emily Post, but Miss Manners approves of a snub when one is deserved. Child abuse seems to fit the bill. Of course, you have to ask yourself what is gained by the snub. If you're a kid and snubbing your parents is going to get you more abuse, perhaps you'd better not.
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,596,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
Do you mean while he is still a child, or later, when the child is grown up and facing his parents?
I was thinking of when he is still a child. I could even envision other adults acting shocked that the child doesn't stand.

Quote:
I read Judith Martin (Miss Manners), not Emily Post, but Miss Manners approves of a snub when one is deserved. Child abuse seems to fit the bill. Of course, you have to ask yourself what is gained by the snub. If you're a kid and snubbing your parents is going to get you more abuse, perhaps you'd better not.
I agree, although what then would manners be? Just a mask, a false face to cover your true feelings.

That brings me to my next point - mindless enactment of manners can be as bad as a total lack of manners. I would much rather encounter someone with bad manners who honestly doesn't know better, than a smiling barracuda who bows, scrapes and says "Please" and "Thank you" on cue.

An example - I had a BIL, big corporate attorney in NYC, young and hungry and making all the right moves. Yet he habitually ate with his mouth open, slopping and smacking away merrily. Most would call it bad manners, yet he honestly wasn't aware of it, since his parents had never corrected him.

But I've also had a man come up to me on the street, very well-spoken and polite with "Excuse me, sir" and "Thank you", who then proceeded to pull a knife on me.

I think the intent behind the manners - the reason(s) you employ them - is just as or more important than the manners themselves.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: The world is my home
172 posts, read 783,857 times
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I do have to add that a lot of women I know, don't appreciate it the politeness of a man like I do. Some say "I can open the door myself" and so I can see why the person asked if some see this as a sign of a weak man, since I'm sure many women would think if he's that big of a "pushover" with manners, he's just a pushover with everything else.
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:13 PM
 
28,896 posts, read 54,045,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
I was thinking of when he is still a child. I could even envision other adults acting shocked that the child doesn't stand.


I agree, although what then would manners be? Just a mask, a false face to cover your true feelings.

That brings me to my next point - mindless enactment of manners can be as bad as a total lack of manners. I would much rather encounter someone with bad manners who honestly doesn't know better, than a smiling barracuda who bows, scrapes and says "Please" and "Thank you" on cue.

An example - I had a BIL, big corporate attorney in NYC, young and hungry and making all the right moves. Yet he habitually ate with his mouth open, slopping and smacking away merrily. Most would call it bad manners, yet he honestly wasn't aware of it, since his parents had never corrected him.

But I've also had a man come up to me on the street, very well-spoken and polite with "Excuse me, sir" and "Thank you", who then proceeded to pull a knife on me.

I think the intent behind the manners - the reason(s) you employ them - is just as or more important than the manners themselves.
You know, there's always somebody trying to find a loophole.
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:35 PM
 
4,379 posts, read 5,372,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
So a child who has been abused by an adult should always stand when that adult comes in the room? I doubt Emily Post would be able to answer that easily.

As with other social conventions you need to investigate them fully and see if they make sense. From what I've seen around me for the last few decades, MANY people are deciding that these "rules" don't fit into their lives, for whatever reason.

But for the OP's question, no - I don't see them as weaknesses.
Manners are about respect to others. it's how society works.

The fact of the matter is that, in general, people like to be treated respectfully. Manners just facilitate that end.
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,596,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samston View Post
Manners are about respect to others. it's how society works.

The fact of the matter is that, in general, people like to be treated respectfully. Manners just facilitate that end.
That's just my point - most of us were taught manners either by our parents or in school. We didn't have much choice in the matter, and if years later we discovered that some manners were pointless it was too late - the early imprinting had already taken over.

True respect is earned - it isn't handed over without a good reason, certainly not just because some graybeard told us that's how it's always been done.
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Old 03-05-2010, 04:22 PM
 
4,379 posts, read 5,372,835 times
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Respect is earned, I'd agree. But there are different modes of respect. The respect one has for a friend, SO, parent or sibling is not the same as a stranger. This does not mean that treating a stranger badly is acceptable, or should be deemed as such.

I agree with your point though, in that a lot of social norms are just arbitrary.
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Old 03-05-2010, 04:35 PM
 
28,896 posts, read 54,045,943 times
Reputation: 46669
Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
That's just my point - most of us were taught manners either by our parents or in school. We didn't have much choice in the matter, and if years later we discovered that some manners were pointless it was too late - the early imprinting had already taken over.

True respect is earned - it isn't handed over without a good reason, certainly not just because some graybeard told us that's how it's always been done.
Nope. Everybody deserves respect until proven otherwise. That's why teaching children manners is so important. It teaches an important fact: You respect every person you encounter until you have a reason to not do so through their actions. This of course doesn't mean children get in the car with strangers or accept abuse from others, but if a child doesn't respect his teacher or other adults in life, what you get is a society filled with a bunch of entitled brats who typically grow up into destructive, self-centered adults.

I am very suspicious when somebody says, "You have to earn my respect," because it gives a great deal of insight into that person's character. For what that person is really saying is, "I'm not going to respect you until you do something for me." That reveals a very self-centered approach to life, and is absolutely no way to live at all.

Last edited by cpg35223; 03-05-2010 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 03-05-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: southwest TN
8,568 posts, read 18,069,299 times
Reputation: 16702
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
The following are pretty much mandatory to be considered a civilized person, in my book:

1) Saying please, thank you, and you're welcome.
2) Holding the door open for others.
3) Writing thank-you notes.
4) Standing to greet an adult entering the room.
5) Attending funerals for those dear to those you care about or, failing that, at least writing a condolence letter (No, cheesy Hallmark cards don't count).
6) Standing when a lady enters or leaves a room.
7) Turning off the television when company comes.
8) Being able-bodied and giving up one's seat on a subway or bus to someone who's elderly or pregnant.
9) RSVPing to an invitation.

If you cannot do items 1-5, 8, and 9, then I just really have nothing to say to you.
I would add:
10) NOT answering the telephone when you have company - that also extends to not answering your cell-phone when you are with people.
Exceptions always such as waiting for an important phone call; children out on a date, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas2010 View Post
I really love a man with manners. That's another reason why I'm SO happy to be moving to the south, I find men up here are big time D****. Do they help a woman who has fallen? NOPE. Do they hold the doors for you? RARELY. If they see you struggling with a large bag of dog food, or what have you, do they help?! NEVER. Maybe it's the area I'm in, but men in the south have ALWAYS been polite to me. It's a big thing to me as well if they can't say please or thank you.
I find it rare that people up north don't show me respect. It is NOT a southern "thing", contrary to opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gman6974 View Post
Manners are a must. Something I can't stand is when I walk by another individual, say "hey" and they ignore me.

1. Yes/no sir Yes/no ma'am.
2. Opening the door for a women or holding it open for another person.
3. Elbows off the table.
4. Speaking loudly and clearly when talking.
5. Speak when you're spoken too.

Just a few I was brought up with.
If you said "hey" to me, I'd either ignore your "accusation" or tell you that "hey" is for horses - which I am not. Hi and hello are acceptable informal greetings. I am not sure I'd agree with your #5, however, as that would preclude MY greeting someone and striking up a conversationl A possible friend just lost.

I also find a man with manners extremely attractive and one without someone I don't want to get to know better.
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