Why Are Certain Personality Traits Often Seen As Attractive In Men But Not In Women? (wife, boyfriend)
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I agree with Denny Crane that Hillary Clinton is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. My Mother and sister can't stand her but when I ask them why they can't seem to come up with anything that really sounds like any sort of a character defect. Hillary is brilliant, expresses herself with great eloquence, has a history of excelling academically, and is obviously ambitious and driven to succeed in life. Some people just can't stand those qualities in a woman, plain and simple, but when someone like Bill Gates or Lee Iacocca exhibit the same drive and determination to succeed everyone looks at them as perfect examples of people we should look up to. Then consider certain men like the legendary coach Mike Ditka who was often very aggressive or the great tennis player John McEnroe who was famous for his highly charged competitive personality. How would most men view a woman who behaved in the same manner? Would they also be seen as charismatic people who were widely admired? I don't think so. In fact I suspect that they would be ridiculed, labeled as being masculine, and I would even expect jokes about their sexuality to become popular with the Joe SixPack crowd.
You and Denny have it exactly right. Oddly enough, powerful women (e.g. Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria, Catherine the Great, Empress Wu Xetian (sp?), Valide Sultana Khadija Turhan, etc.) in history were not seen as too assertive. They, at least based on the writings from their times, were viewed as good, strong leaders. Of course, I suppose the fact that they could execute people at will might have muted any criticism that might have existed then
The “single most underappreciated fact about gender,” he said, is the ratio of our male to female ancestors. While it’s true that about half of all the people who ever lived were men, the typical male was much more likely than the typical woman to die without reproducing. Citing recent DNA research, Dr. Baumeister explained that today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. Maybe 80 percent of women reproduced, whereas only 40 percent of men did.
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For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.
I wonder how many women have the same stories of mayhem that men do. I have had bike and motor bike accidents including being hit by a car. I had a rifle slam fire in my bed room wall. I almost took my finger off with a cross bow. I have been in fights and scraps. I have been kicked, elbowed and punched. I ran from police. I was arrested for alcohol possession at 17. I burned down a field, threw bottles at trains and vandalized road signs. My brother blew him self against the wall with acetylene and oxygen. My father had scars on his wrists from explosives and lined up a 5 car wide drag race. How does this compare to the typical past of a woman I wonder?
Pretty tame compared to me and 1/2 my friends Then again, public health folk and humanitarian aid workers can get themselves in some sticky situations pretty regularly. However, our near death experiences are slightly less likely to be self-inflicted....except that time in my chemistry lab when I decided to see if a strong acid and a strong base reacted as strongly when mixed together as reputed. They do.
The more i thought about this comment the stranger it became. There are over 300 million people in america. What possible calamity could kill 90% of american women? If there was a major world war it probably wouldn't even involve troops, it would more likely involve a full blown nuclear exchange that would wipe out men and women in equal numbers. It seems like you're suggesting that women who are ambitious in their careers are likely to embark on some dangerous career involving military service in which they might suffer massive casualties instead of what is really happening in society which is women who are working their way up the corporate ladder, establishing their own businesses or pursuing a wide variety of career opportunities that are suited to their own skills.
The 90% loss of women thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I wonder how many women have the same stories of mayhem that men do. I have had bike and motor bike accidents including being hit by a car. I had a rifle slam fire in my bed room wall. I almost took my finger off with a cross bow. I have been in fights and scraps. I have been kicked, elbowed and punched. I ran from police. I was arrested for alcohol possession at 17. I burned down a field, threw bottles at trains and vandalized road signs. My brother blew him self against the wall with acetylene and oxygen. My father had scars on his wrists from explosives and lined up a 5 car wide drag race. How does this compare to the typical past of a woman I wonder?
I've also done some crazy things when I was younger like alot of other guys have so I understand what you're saying but when I look at some of the things I've done like that I must admit that I was not mature at the time and I don't really consider these sorts of things to be character traits but rather something that I eventually outgrew like most of my friends did. Women in their teens tend to be more mature than their male counterparts of the same age and also seem to have a little more common sense and don't tend to engage in reckless and destructive behavior as often as young men do.
The question in my OP is mainly concerned with adult behavior and personality traits and whether traits that are admired in men are not found to be highly regarded in women by many people.
I've also done some crazy things when I was younger like alot of other guys have so I understand what you're saying but when I look at some of the things I've done like that I must admit that I was not mature at the time and I don't really consider these sorts of things to be character traits but rather something that I eventually outgrew like most of my friends did. Women in their teens tend to be more mature than their male counterparts of the same age and also seem to have a little more common sense and don't tend to engage in reckless and destructive behavior as often as young men do.
The question in my OP is mainly concerned with adult behavior and personality traits and whether traits that are admired in men are not found to be highly regarded in women by many people.
You're single and have difficulty finding dates and/or long-term relationships, n'est-ce pas?
I agree with Denny Crane that Hillary Clinton is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. My Mother and sister can't stand her but when I ask them why they can't seem to come up with anything that really sounds like any sort of a character defect. Hillary is brilliant, expresses herself with great eloquence, has a history of excelling academically, and is obviously ambitious and driven to succeed in life. Some people just can't stand those qualities in a woman, plain and simple, but when someone like Bill Gates or Lee Iacocca exhibit the same drive and determination to succeed everyone looks at them as perfect examples of people we should look up to. Then consider certain men like the legendary coach Mike Ditka who was often very aggressive or the great tennis player John McEnroe who was famous for his highly charged competitive personality. How would most men view a woman who behaved in the same manner? Would they also be seen as charismatic people who were widely admired? I don't think so. In fact I suspect that they would be ridiculed, labeled as being masculine, and I would even expect jokes about their sexuality to become popular with the Joe SixPack crowd.
Have you ever seen the show L.A. Law? It aired in the late 80s/early 90s. One year, they added a female character who was conniving, aggressive, and didn't shy away from a fight. The producer gave an interview saying that when he was writing the character, he wrote her as if she were male and then cast a woman cause he wanted to see how the audience would react. Well it certainly helped the ratings. She became one of those characters people had strong views on. Even within the show, the female characters were divided. One was threatened by her while another admired her for being so ballsy. In the end, they booted her out but the woman who disliked her confessed that if she had been a man, the reaction among the other lawyers would've been different echoing the audience reaction. That character then came back and sued the firm for sex discrimination. LOL.
Athletes are another great example. When Serena Williams shot her mouth off at the linesperson last year, it reminded me of something John McEnroe or Jimmy Connors would do. Sure there's no excuse for such unsportsman-like conduct. But a lot of commentators called it unlady-like. Do you think they have accused McEnroe or Connors of being un-man-like for swearing?
You're single and have difficulty finding dates and/or long-term relationships, n'est-ce pas?
Yes I am, does that make you feel better? I think it's largely due to my age because when I was young this wasn't a problem but it gets worse as you get older but that's really not what the OP is about is it?
Pretty tame compared to me and 1/2 my friends Then again, public health folk and humanitarian aid workers can get themselves in some sticky situations pretty regularly. However, our near death experiences are slightly less likely to be self-inflicted....except that time in my chemistry lab when I decided to see if a strong acid and a strong base reacted as strongly when mixed together as reputed. They do.
Hi typhoidmary,
You do realize that humanitarian aid cancels out the effect since that is a typically powerful female drive. Florence Nightingale is the perfect example.
The goal was not senseless risk taking. I am also somewhat average I think. There is far worse and my list is partial.
In my view men are scum but they redeem themselves by having a taste and appreciation of goodness and nurturing in women. Women are these things except they have one fatal flaw. They have a taste for scum.
Well, if I didnt have a bf, Id date MG. I wish more men held his views. I seriously doubt that not being hung up on youth, fertility and gender superiority has anything to do with him being single.
I agree with the double standards on personality traits. I think men who feel these traits are inappropriate in females are not only intimidated but confused because they truly believe males are superior in every way and when they see women achieving goals thru the same traits as themselves they cant justify their belief in their own superiority so they react the only way they can by insulting and belittling females.
As far as female not being as risk taking, yes this has been true in the past because it has not been allowed or acceptable. It proves MG whole premise.
We are seeing more women in high risk positions and sports and in the military because attitudes have changed.
As far as stupidity and delinquency, Im not sure what the point is relevant to risk taking.
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Then again, public health folk and humanitarian aid workers can get themselves in some sticky situations pretty regularly. However, our near death experiences are slightly less likely to be self-inflicted....except that time in my chemistry lab when I decided to see if a strong acid and a strong base reacted as strongly when mixed together as reputed. They do.
