Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Haha, thanks for letting it slide. I should not have drank so much. It made me weak.
I was just thinking back and marveling at the fact she contacted me for no real reason other than to play with my emotions, in the end she wanted nothing at all from me, and her contact was pointless. I wish she would just stop trying. At 45 days, I thought I was out of the woods.
Haha, thanks for letting it slide. I should not have drank so much. It made me weak.
I was just thinking back and marveling at the fact she contacted me for no real reason other than to play with my emotions, in the end she wanted nothing at all from me, and her contact was pointless. I wish she would just stop trying. At 45 days, I thought I was out of the woods.
Tell her if she calls you again you are going to go kick her new boyfriends ease just for the hell of it......she want bother you any more....
You seem like a really good guy. I am new to this thread, but I had to write a post because you seem to have been dealing with a similar situation (minus the marriage and cheating aspects) as I had with my ex. It took me a long time to work out the full situation and a lot of confusion. In the end I realised it was him who had the problem of being a narcissist, i.e. a personality problem, and I was co-dependent, which I never realised before. But these labels have really helped me heal.
For a long time I was confused, took the blame cos he blamed me, but now I realise it was him.
Your ex lives in a world where its all about her, hence the reference to the beach day. They also cant take criticism, so of course it would be turned on you, and her saying its down to you or your fault. You probably even ended up apologising to her sometimes, even though she was at fault.
Someone mentioned earlier there is a codependent matter going on here. i.e. why you chose her, and chose to accept her behaviour for many years and presumably lowered your standards to accommodate her wishes. They like submissive types, they choose such types. What also seems to have occurred here is, control by her, submission by you, plus she is very selfish, you are essentially too nice, i.e. too unselfish.
The narcissist person will quickly move on to another, because that’s how they are, shallow emotions, and abandon you when they decide. They have no empathy, so considering your feelings is not on their radar, their world is all about them, them only. Plus they will search for a new one, while with you it appears in many cases I have read up on. They are insecure. But it's not your job to rescue them, and besides people dont really change in that type of core character issue.
For the co-dependent, what makes them stay and put up with such behaviour from another, is often stemming from their childhood, and often one parent seems to have been a narcissist, so unknowingly you have grown up conditioned to accepting more poor behaviour than others may have.
So learn, heal, move on to someone new, and be much more choosy in whom to invest your precious emotions. Don’t lower your standards to fit in with another, they are not respecting you if they do that, and you are not respecting yourself either if you allow that.
I suspect you have been too nice, too accommodating and too unselfish. Learn not to do that, and choose a better partner in whom to invest your emotions. Maintain your respect at all times.
Oh and dont worry about the new guy, he is dealing with the same problem personality. It may be all rosy in the beginning but you watch and see, her personality wont change. You may even begin to see how you should pity him. Patterns generally repeat with such people.
She was a very selfish person, I am sure you have been hurting immensely I know I was with a similar situation. But once you see it for what it was, eventually!, i.e. she was exploiting your niceness, and disrespecting you, taking you for granted, that is not a person you want to be with. But I guess like me, you are/were deeply in love with them.
You need to rebuild and re-find yourself again, to how you were pre-meeting her. Be strong, and heal, then move on, and find someone who deserves you, and wants to be truly present in a real relationship. You need to set clear boundaries, and enforce them. So be stronger and firm. Choose a better person next time, who deserves a nice good man.
Hey, don't be nice. In the end a girl that cheats is just someone who likes to manipulate guys. Even I have made the mistake of being nice to a girl after I break up with her on bad terms. In reality they want nothing more from you than control. Go find someone that will be good to you, I did and I'm happy now.
I know a girl that operates in the exact same way (cheating, stringing along 2 guys at a time, using one to bridge another, rationalizing that the situation was "complex"). I'm kinda stuck with her for life so I have observed about 15 years of this behavior. Interestingly, she also maintained "friendships" with all of her exes. Trust me, this is nothing more than a power trip for her. She doens't want to get back together, ever. The reason why she feels a need to be friendly is because this would prove to her (in her twisted mind) that she had done nothing wrong. She needs to think that she isn't a bad person, when in reality she is.
She should be dead in your eyes. In fact, you should probably tell her what you think of her in so many words and be done with it. She really is getting no "reward", contrary to what you think. In fact her mind is in a turmoil most of the time, so busy rationalizing and validating her self-worth, she probably doesn't have a moment of rest. Ever. She has to rationalize that all her family and friends still believe that she is a good person. How much energy does that take?
The worst thing you can do to her is to advertise her behavior to her family. The second worst thing you can do is to ignore her completely. The worst thing to do for yourself is to respond in any way, shape, or form to her.
People always believe that they cheated for a "complex reason". Really, it's so simple. Selfishness and lack of self-control. If they cannot understand the simplicity of this, they will never change.
I saw your original response and you were spot on with it anyway despite it being an old thread so I thank you very much for that. Very kind of you to show support for a guy you don't even know.
What you say about her behavior, unfortunately, is also pretty spot on. It takes a special breed to do what she did. Even before she started dating me, and soon after, she lived with depression, low self-esteem, substance abuse, and other issues. She was also rather selfish. Therefore, having already not liking herself, to think of herself as a downright dirty cheater is going to hammer her into the ground even further. So I agree in your reasoning that her contacts were ego/esteem boosters for her own personal gain and nothing more.
I will not/never allow myself to be friend zoned with her and I never do this with any of my exes. I don't facebook friend them, text them, spy on their online statuses, I cut all ties and move on. I don't want to know what they are doing and I certainly don't want to pal around with them. I do however agree she wants to be able to tell her family and friends we parted on "friendly" terms. They all know the real deal though. Maybe not her Mom (her only family really) but I don't have any way to contact her nor do I feel it's my business to do so. Most likely, in her Mom's eyes though, this is just her "new guy" that she found after I kicked her out -- Not the guy she started seeing months before she called off the wedding and left.
Early on in the breakup I considered a really nasty email or phone call or letter or something basically outlining every little horrible thing she did and all that I think of her and what she was able to do to me. But then I thought, that is just feeding her more drama. So I have been doing my best to stick with your option 2, NC.
I also learned the hard way this weekend that responding was such a mistake. Won't make it again.
Thanks again miyu. Sorry you are stuck in a cycle with someone like this.
Hey, don't be nice. In the end a girl that cheats is just someone who likes to manipulate guys. Even I have made the mistake of being nice to a girl after I break up with her on bad terms. In reality they want nothing more from you than control. Go find someone that will be good to you, I did and I'm happy now.
Thanks, I am done being nice. We had a clean break and I need to stop looking back and trying to get closure that can't possibly come. The easiest thing I can do is block and stick to my NC 100%, no more slips.
You seem like a really good guy. I am new to this thread, but I had to write a post because you seem to have been dealing with a similar situation (minus the marriage and cheating aspects) as I had with my ex. It took me a long time to work out the full situation and a lot of confusion. In the end I realised it was him who had the problem of being a narcissist, i.e. a personality problem, and I was co-dependent, which I never realised before. But these labels have really helped me heal.
For a long time I was confused, took the blame cos he blamed me, but now I realise it was him.
Your ex lives in a world where its all about her, hence the reference to the beach day. They also cant take criticism, so of course it would be turned on you, and her saying its down to you or your fault. You probably even ended up apologising to her sometimes, even though she was at fault.
Someone mentioned earlier there is a codependent matter going on here. i.e. why you chose her, and chose to accept her behaviour for many years and presumably lowered your standards to accommodate her wishes. They like submissive types, they choose such types. What also seems to have occurred here is, control by her, submission by you, plus she is very selfish, you are essentially too nice, i.e. too unselfish.
The narcissist person will quickly move on to another, because that’s how they are, shallow emotions, and abandon you when they decide. They have no empathy, so considering your feelings is not on their radar, their world is all about them, them only. Plus they will search for a new one, while with you it appears in many cases I have read up on. They are insecure. But it's not your job to rescue them, and besides people dont really change in that type of core character issue.
For the co-dependent, what makes them stay and put up with such behaviour from another, is often stemming from their childhood, and often one parent seems to have been a narcissist, so unknowingly you have grown up conditioned to accepting more poor behaviour than others may have.
So learn, heal, move on to someone new, and be much more choosy in whom to invest your precious emotions. Don’t lower your standards to fit in with another, they are not respecting you if they do that, and you are not respecting yourself either if you allow that.
I suspect you have been too nice, too accommodating and too unselfish. Learn not to do that, and choose a better partner in whom to invest your emotions. Maintain your respect at all times.
Oh and dont worry about the new guy, he is dealing with the same problem personality. It may be all rosy in the beginning but you watch and see, her personality wont change. You may even begin to see how you should pity him. Patterns generally repeat with such people.
She was a very selfish person, I am sure you have been hurting immensely I know I was with a similar situation. But once you see it for what it was, eventually!, i.e. she was exploiting your niceness, and disrespecting you, taking you for granted, that is not a person you want to be with. But I guess like me, you are/were deeply in love with them.
You need to rebuild and re-find yourself again, to how you were pre-meeting her. Be strong, and heal, then move on, and find someone who deserves you, and wants to be truly present in a real relationship. You need to set clear boundaries, and enforce them. So be stronger and firm. Choose a better person next time, who deserves a nice good man.
All the best.
Great post on narcissism and codependency here.
I can't self-diagnose myself or diagnose her, but I feel this is very likely. I have taken a hard look in the mirror and definitely determined I have codependent tendencies and it's why I allowed her manipulation, and why the relationship lasted so long. I am trying to learn to put up boundaries and be more firm in the future. I need to manage my "nice guy" rescuer tendencies and pick partners more carefully in the future. If nothing else, this rough experience has forced me to learn a lot.
I have read a bit about borderline personalities and narcissism and waifs and all that, and she certainly seems to have a lot of the tendencies exhibited there. I can't say for sure, but it would not surprise me.
You are correct that it was always all about her, and this was not just in our relationship, but in her work environment, with her friends, and with her life. She had drama almost every day, whether it was fighting with her mother (her only family), fighting with her co-workers, fighting with me...Very few days were just "regular" days. And when I got tired of the drama, she just took her beer and retreated to her room to surf the web and drink herself either a little or a lot drunk depending on the day.
I am realizing also that it hurts so much because of the dynamic and they just know how to bleed you and leave you. So that's given me a lot of comfort in that it puts a face on what happened in this relationship. It also convinced me that no matter what I did, I could have prolonged things perhaps, even disastrously past the wedding, but the relationship was doomed for failure as long as she refused to work on her issues with a professional. So, this dynamic will either plague her through life, or she will hit bottom, get help, and get better.
Sorry to hear you went through this as well, but happy to see you are healing.
I can't self-diagnose myself or diagnose her, but I feel this is very likely. I have taken a hard look in the mirror and definitely determined I have codependent tendencies and it's why I allowed her manipulation, and why the relationship lasted so long. I am trying to learn to put up boundaries and be more firm in the future. I need to manage my "nice guy" rescuer tendencies and pick partners more carefully in the future. If nothing else, this rough experience has forced me to learn a lot.
I have read a bit about borderline personalities and narcissism and waifs and all that, and she certainly seems to have a lot of the tendencies exhibited there. I can't say for sure, but it would not surprise me.
You are correct that it was always all about her, and this was not just in our relationship, but in her work environment, with her friends, and with her life. She had drama almost every day, whether it was fighting with her mother (her only family), fighting with her co-workers, fighting with me...Very few days were just "regular" days. And when I got tired of the drama, she just took her beer and retreated to her room to surf the web and drink herself either a little or a lot drunk depending on the day.
I am realizing also that it hurts so much because of the dynamic and they just know how to bleed you and leave you. So that's given me a lot of comfort in that it puts a face on what happened in this relationship. It also convinced me that no matter what I did, I could have prolonged things perhaps, even disastrously past the wedding, but the relationship was doomed for failure as long as she refused to work on her issues with a professional. So, this dynamic will either plague her through life, or she will hit bottom, get help, and get better.
Sorry to hear you went through this as well, but happy to see you are healing.
Hi DMKK,
Honestly, it's been hell. The book I found really useful was "Narcissistic lovers" by Cynthia Zayn & Kevin Dibble.
Funny you said:"know how to bleed you and leave you", in the book it says they are soulless, and some describe it like vampire behaviour, they suck you dry of your spirit and soul, then once done, just move on to their next victim!
Sadly with these types, as it's a behaviour/character disorder, so it can never be cured. Think about that one if you had married her, this would have continued and not got better, worse if anything.
For me too, yes it was also drama, and just exaggarated reactions to everything. e.g. "being in touch with you is torture", extreme words for everything, and so hurtful. It was always drama but didnt need to be that way at all.
By the way, I generally like to keep in touch with my ex's but in your case here, I dont think it's best. Plus she is all about control and manipulation.
What hurts me too, is I have spent 3.5 yrs of my life on this guy. Sad, and they dont even think of your feelings, at all.
When I look back though, there was selfish behaviour right from the earlier days, I just didnt see it, or excused it because of wanting to see the good in him. I too sadly got drawn into a sob story from his past, due to his ex-wife, and so was slightly rescuer too. It's a manipulation trick again. I think they learn it when younger, as most normal people react with sympathy to hearing such a story and you want to take care of them and make it better. But they use that story, for the purpose of drawing you in.
Also, quite possibly that story is not real, and it's the other person who is the victim, not her! e.g. she may have told her new guy, you're so awful because of xyz, etc etc, when it's not true, and so manipulating him from day one too, though he may not realise it, I'm sure he will in time!!!
But again, it will depend on his tolerance limits, e.g. these types can end up marrying, as she almost did with you, you just find out further down the line, the reality of their character, and with all these things it harder to get out and over, the longer its been, as your feelings are deeper.
Note too, this behaviour on the codependent, is psychological and emotional abuse. Sometimes there is an element of sexual abuse, in the way sex is used or manipulated from/with the other person, etc. For me, it's weird, I still really love the man who treats me not so well, hmmm, isnt that one of the classic signs of abuse! And yes, our types, try and try and try, whereas other types, not codependent, notice the first bad behaviour and stop. That is the learning for us, fortunately codependence can be reprogrammed out of us, but again our instinct reaction may still be this.
Deep down I know they are insecure, and its sad they are this way, so I have sympathy in a way, as often it's due to something in their childhood, but I have finally realised, I cant rescue him, and he doesnt really treat me well either, he doesnt see his behaviour as bad, he doesnt see he even has a problem; yet I had excused so much. It was all take take take on his part, and from me, give give give, until you are worn down. Blinded by love. How much pain and sadness can a person take?
Each of us will eventually heal, but it'll be longer due to these types. The critical bit will be to choose your next partner better. One thing I noticed with these selfish types is try talking about yourself and see how long it is before they switch it to about them. Also, try critisizing them, and if they "react" then you have a simliar bad quality in that person.
I noticed with mine, a "my way or the higway" mentality too. Uses the silent treatment - again this is a sign of controlling behaviour.
I too was blamed, after which I spent months punishing myself and confused over how my actions contributed, but then stumbled across the terms of narcissist and codependent. Having the label and understand was great. I knew what I'd been through was not normal when people tried to tell me to just get over it/him.
With yours and cheating, it can be a quicker thing to get over, as it's very clear cut. She is very manipulative and selfish. I wish you a good healing, know you had a lucky escape from years of misery ahead.
btw - what did you do with the gift of the big desk?
You deserve much much more than being treated like a doormat, as I can tell you are a good man. So find a truly good woman, where you will be truly and genuinely appreciated for you as a pereson, not taken for granted. Put in boundaries, one thing I realised here, I firmly believe that it's a two way thing, a good person would have put in boundaries even if you had not, so that is something to note too, i.e. where a partner is quite happy to allow grey areas or no boundaries is not a good sign! It should be about considering the others feelings, empathy, not what they can get out of you or get you to do. It's lovely to know at least there are a few good men out there, as I was beginning to wonder, ha ha!
Great thread, it's helped me too, to realise, there are others with this type of person, and how it impacts to people like us, it's a horrid thing to have gone through.
All the best again.
p.s. You said about her fighting with her mother, maybe that has been the source of her behaviour issues since childhood. It is critical to note how any partner treats their ex's and treats the women figures in their lives, i.e. mother, sisters, etc. It is a clear indication of how they deal with people. So the poor relationship with her mother was a sign, and a big part of this.
Last edited by sunflower888; 06-03-2010 at 12:47 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
in the book it says they are soulless, and some describe it like vampire behaviour, they suck you dry of your spirit and soul, then once done, just move on to their next victim!
Blinded by love. How much pain and sadness can a person take? 
