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Old 04-12-2010, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Philly Metro
379 posts, read 51,817 times
Reputation: 412

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
You know, marriage in America will stay up against the ropes until drastic changes are made; such as, but not limited to:



Women (en masse) forgoing collage to stay at home so they can relearn values that kept civilizations alive for centuries, such as, cooking nutritious food, proper sanitation of living quarters, home education for the little ones, and networking with other moms/families to form communities and REAL political power.


Men going back to being able to work one job to support his ENTIRE family.


Men having to work only 40 hours (or less) every week (keep in mind, many people today work 70-80 hours a week, and they are not even self employed, they are working for a company!). Also 4 weeks vacation should be the minimum standard!


Women and men (en masse) walk away from all the Hollywood garbage that promotes drug use, drinking, and sexual promiscuity (or at least boycott the industry until they improve their standards).


Adults going back to having REALISTIC goals for each other, such as, men not being so critical of a woman looks, and women going back to being able to think highly of any man regardless of his income, particular trade, or employment so as long as he encompasses the archetype of a REAL man who is honest, dependable, protective and brave.


Some type of matching up of potential consorts system that is directed by the elders/family/community to ensure that everybody got a mate, and that the mate entering the dating pool was pre screened by the community so they can't contaminate the dating pool or get over on others who are innocent and native.


Couples learning how to build a quality life TOGETHER instead of building up a life separately, and independently, to only then try and meet at the top. Well it doesn't always work out so well because people who build a life on their own somehow feel that they are better then anybody who did not achieve as much as they did (sense of entitlement) so they sometimes blow off perfectly good mates in the process, or they hang it over their mates head that they achieved more, which in many cases is what causes divorce.


People given more leisure time (which goes along with point no.3) to develop hobbies and cultivate oneself.
I think you are 100% correct. I can relate to all of what you said.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:14 PM
 
Location: San Diego
497 posts, read 484,862 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
You know, marriage in America will stay up against the ropes until drastic changes are made; such as, but not limited to:
Oh yes, things were sooooo much better back in the days where the little woman stayed out of sight in the kitchen unless you needed your feet rubbed or your beer refreshed. Heaven forfend that she ever talked back to the man of the house, and thank god that when she did you could pop her one across the mouth without fear of being arrested!! Oh god yes please let's go back to those halcyon days!!

Seriously, let me guess -- you're a christian, aren't you? Perhaps even a fundie one at that. Doesn't it just gall you to hell and back that christians' divorce rate is >50% while the atheists' divorce rate is <40%? gosh, what's up with that?
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:52 AM
 
Location: CA
830 posts, read 1,551,665 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
You know, marriage in America will stay up against the ropes until drastic changes are made; such as, but not limited to:
Just wow.

The description that follows this is based on a very limited scope of time and place in history. It is not actually what happened in most cultures and across time. I'd frankly argue that much of it didn't happen in any culture at any time.

And even if someone being home was necessary to sanitize and cook properly, there's no reason why that person has to be one with XX chromosomes. Goodness gracious.

Anyway, marriage isn't much worth saving if that's how it's supposed to be, in my opinion. And I'm not a marriage-hating person at all, normally. But it sounds entirely unappealing put this way!
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,063 posts, read 11,606,215 times
Reputation: 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occam's Bikini Wax View Post
Oh yes, things were sooooo much better back in the days where the little woman stayed out of sight in the kitchen unless you needed your feet rubbed or your beer refreshed. Heaven forfend that she ever talked back to the man of the house, and thank god that when she did you could pop her one across the mouth without fear of being arrested!! Oh god yes please let's go back to those halcyon days!!

Seriously, let me guess -- you're a christian, aren't you? Perhaps even a fundie one at that. Doesn't it just gall you to hell and back that christians' divorce rate is >50% while the atheists' divorce rate is <40%? gosh, what's up with that?
And what on Earth does THAT have to do with anything? What, any opportunity to try to bash Christians when being a Neanderthal actually transcends demographics?

For your information, it was the CHRISTIANS who fought against forcing women into arranged marriages and I actually posted a bit about this in a brief history of marriage that I linked. So, stop the snide remarks about Christians.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:18 AM
 
Location: California
25,614 posts, read 17,133,267 times
Reputation: 18127
A big problem is self importance, the "me" attitude people have. Many people believe they should do whatever they need to do in order to be happy and get the most out of life. We have been taught to believe that is the best thing, the healthiest thing, for us to do. When someone decides they aren't as happy as they ought to be with their marriage and their spouse it's not hard to decide to divorce because, after all, they they deserve to be happy right? I have heard many people say that marriage for life is an outdated idea and near impossible if people want to get all they can out of life.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:51 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,416,285 times
Reputation: 3746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Many people believe they should do whatever they need to do in order to be happy and get the most out of life.
That's a perfectly legitimate -- in fact, laudable -- goal in life. It's certainly better than believing that you should be miserable and get very little out of life in order to preserve an abstract idea. If marriage should exist at all, it should exist for people -- not people for marriage.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:54 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,416,285 times
Reputation: 3746
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
I'm sorry Redisca.....
It's okay, I forgive you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
Looking at this post and thread... my opinion is that your replies are manipulated,
in order to exaggerate highlights that you feel are easily at "first glance"
items worthy of rebuke.
I manipulate nothing. Rather, I take words at face value and take them to their logical conclusion. Maybe I'd be doing less of that if certain people actually thought their ideas through before hitting the keyboard. And that's giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
There is a "frustration theme" that waves through postings with adamant,
hurried, impatient rejection.
You don't say. Yes, intellectual sloppiness, religious fundamentalism, and a backward mentality that would relegate half of humanity to servile status -- those things indeed make me impatient. So sue me.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,416,285 times
Reputation: 3746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
Redisca, you have a habit of deliberately describing my point of view in such a skewed, repulsive manner. You then hone in on certain aspects (the cleaning aspect) which you are now deliberately taking out of context.
I describe your point of view exactly as you state it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
Redisca, I only came at you that way because you belittle people who cook and clean for a living.
I don't care if somebody decides to cook and clean for a living. What I challenge is your claim that all women should cook and clean for a living, to the exclusion of every other endeavor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
As far as women, and marriage, the crux of my argument is that I believe women need to reconsider if pursuing a degree is worth the effort because often times it's hard to find balance between family life and business life especially if the husband AND the wife are working and children are involved.
Most women don't get married until they have already obtained a degree. So your argument is that merely being educated somehow makes women unfit to be good wives and mothers -- despite statistical evidence that educated women divorce less than uneducated ones. Additionally, you contradict yourself. You take me to task for suggesting that getting a high-paying job is a legitimate reason to get an education; but simultaneously, you claim that women should forego education in order to devote more time to cooking and cleaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
Once again, I came at you that way because you would slip in disparaging descriptions (e.g,"janitor with 2 grades' education") when you would describe janitors. And no, you DON'T appreciate janitors.
Whatever. I am not going to make **** up in order to flatter people. Someone with 2 grades' education can easily get a job as a janitor, but would find it virtually impossible to get a job as a college professor. Simultaneously, someone with intellectual pursuits would not likely settle for being a janitor, except on a temporary basis. Accordingly, you'll find that most janitors are indeed uneducated (and plenty are in fact illiterate), while college professors are almost universally highly educated. Sad, but true. If that offends janitors, they are more than welcome to change careers. I am sure that, given their clearly superior minds, it would be a breeze.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
I will have you know that many regular John Does and Suzie Smiths who you would pass on the street and think nothing started janitorial businesses on there own (with or without degrees), only to then 10-15 years later rake in 200k+ a year cleaning the offices that all you snobbish, falsely privileged feeling people work out of to make your 30-60k.
When I was talking about a janitor not being a good match for a nuclear physicist, where did I say anything about money? I was talking about culture and interests. Are you able to distinguish those things from money? Or are those totally abstract concepts for you? All right. Inasmuch as you feel offended for janitors, let's turn this around: An intellectual isn't good enough to marry a blue collar worker. Intellectuals don't enjoy normal things like NASCAR and spectator sports, or talking about baseball stats. Instead, they read boring books and talk about nonsense, like Shakespeare (boy, is that dumb!) and cosmology (who cares how the Universe started?). A lot of intellectuals like theater and classical music, which is, like, totally gay. (Note to moderators: This is sarcasm, not gay-bashing.) Plus, we all know being interested in intellectual things makes one incapable of doing laundry, so intellectuals live like pigs. What would a normal person even talk about with an intellectual? Plus, while they have millions of dollars in grants, they don't make nearly as much as a unionized construction worker. Pass![/end sarcasm] Is that good enough for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
As a matter of fact, I knew of a family who were all living quite well as janitors. They EMPLOYED (do you law people do that?) 8-15 people and the man who started the business eventually retired a millionaire and bought a home (IN CASH) free and clear in mid west; the business is now run by his daughter whom I use to know.
Oh? You mean, they don't clean our bathrooms out of the goodness of their hearts? They do it for money?? My, oh my, and you made it sound as if janitors just live and breathe for no other purpose than to keep our facilities safe for us, filthy classical literature-loving ingrates. Incidentally, it's good to know that running a business doesn't interfere with his daughter's housework, whereas college education would. [/end sarcasm]
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: On our boat!
5,682 posts, read 10,504,262 times
Reputation: 3197
Wife/I totally agree (in red below)! I have numerous Christian classmates that I graduated with in 1968 who have been married for 40 years now! BUT, on the other side of that coin, what about the Christians who stay in a marriage for years and they are so unhappy? That is 100% my sister-in-law. A great American Marriage is a HAPPY one......and there are plenty of people in those HAPPY American Marriages!

Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
And what on Earth does THAT have to do with anything? What, any opportunity to try to bash Christians when being a Neanderthal actually transcends demographics?

For your information, it was the CHRISTIANS who fought against forcing women into arranged marriages and I actually posted a bit about this in a brief history of marriage that I linked. So, stop the snide remarks about Christians.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,416,285 times
Reputation: 3746
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
And what on Earth does THAT have to do with anything? What, any opportunity to try to bash Christians when being a Neanderthal actually transcends demographics?
I am sorry, Teatime, while you are correct that being a Neanderthal transcends demographics, apparently, some groups attract Neanderthals in greater numbers than others. The stats are there: Born-again Christians have the highest rates of divorce. Regionally, the Bible Belt states have the highest rates of divorce. I don't have any information about Catholics or the Greek Orthodox, but whatever they are, atheists and agnostics divorce the least. And regionally, Massachusetts is the state with the lowest rate of divorce. (Source (http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/01/17/1264925/us-divorce-rates-returning-to.html - broken link))
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