Prenuptial? Men Women Chime Away? (marry, cheat, younger, children)

[Redisca]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

If I were a homemaker and my husband said, "I made the money, so all of these things are mine," without recognizing the contributions I had made, I would feel very angry and betrayed. It's hard to understand sometimes why or how two people who loved one another can become so cruel.

I recently reviewed a prenup which would require the wife to be a homemaker during the minority of any children, and to work in her husband's business the rest of the time (for free, of course). At the same time, it stated that they were to have separate bank accounts, and if they were to divorce, each would take only what has his or her name on it; and she would not be entitled to any portion of the value of the business. So basically, it's a contract for slavery. But of course, when her fiance presented it to her, he told her he just wanted to protect both of them. Which was an outrageous lie.

[juniperbleu]

I don't really have a problem with a prenup. Sure, it's not romantic, but when you both come into the marriage with your own assets (especially if it's uneven) I really don't see it as anything other than protecting yourself against the unforeseeable future. For me, it's not guarding yourself against the person you know, love, and trust now, but from someone who may develop later. I've seen men and women go through extreme emotional and psychological changes over the years, to the point where they're hardly recognizable to the people who love them. Also, when a marriage dissolves people get angry, hurt, and emotional. A prenup can at least give an indication of what you each think you're entitled to before hurt and anger enter the picture.

Think about why exactly you want a prenup and bring it up with her honestly and tactfully. Try to work on the agreement together, so it's not you just slapping her with "here's what you can and can't have". Know that she might get very very upset and try to be empathetic towards this.

[juniperbleu]

Originally Posted by Redisca

The fact remains, however, that when a prenuptial agreement is drafted, it is designed to protect one spouse at the expense of the other regardless of the spouses' respective contributions. In fact, it is against the law for an attorney to attempt to represent the interests of both parties in drafting a prenup. The paper that the OP will present Ms. Ryan with will be very one-sided, that much is given.

Purely out of curiosity, could they work with a mediator or someone to try and draft an agreement on equitable division of their assets/contributions? Or would it have to be that they each get their own lawyer and fight it out?

[Thursday007]

Originally Posted by Redisca

The fact remains, however, that when a prenuptial agreement is drafted, it is designed to protect one spouse at the expense of the other regardless of the spouses' respective contributions. In fact, it is against the law for an attorney to attempt to represent the interests of both parties in drafting a prenup. The paper that the OP will present Ms. Ryan with will be very one-sided, that much is given.

Not if it is drafted with certain respects by the party doing the request. Case in point - all assets and LIABILITIES pre dating the marriage shall remain in the sole care and custody of each individual party. All assets and liabitlies acquired after the date of the nuptuals shall be divided as follows : . Then, you decide what goes in it. Unless you went to Office Max or Legal Zoom for your pre-nup it's not a standard form. It is also not unheard of for 2 pre-nups by each individual exist.

[Redisca]

Originally Posted by Thursday007

Case in point - all assets and LIABILITIES pre dating the marriage shall remain in the sole care and custody of each individual party. All assets and liabitlies acquired after the date of the nuptuals shall be divided as follows :

Still -- again -- it's AGAINST THE LAW for a lawyer hired by the future husband to draft the prenup in a way that protects the rights of the future wife to the detriment of his own client; or vice versa. So when the future husband hands that first draft to his future wife, that document is in no way, shape or form designed to protect both of them. It's designed to protect him from her.

[Thursday007]

Originally Posted by Redisca

Still -- again -- it's AGAINST THE LAW for a lawyer hired by the future husband to draft the prenup in a way that protects the rights of the future wife to the detriment of his own client; or vice versa. So when the future husband hands that first draft to his future wife, that document is in no way, shape or form designed to protect both of them. It's designed to protect him from her.

It can be designated he/she recieve a percentage of stipulated acquired assets that increase with each year of the marriage for example or a monetary settlement of xyz that increases with each year. I think you are missing my point completely. Bottomline is not the legalities, but whether everyone finds it as an insult and it isn't always viewed as an insult with rational people.

[Redisca]

Originally Posted by juniperbleu

Purely out of curiosity, could they work with a mediator or someone to try and draft an agreement on equitable division of their assets/contributions? Or would it have to be that they each get their own lawyer and fight it out?

If one of them hires a lawyer, the other one should too. Lack of adequate legal representation is one of the most common reasons that prenuptial agreements get invalidated in divorce. Theoretically, you could hire a mediator, but that mediator would not be able to give either of them legal advice. (Again, because of the laws governing conflicts of interests.) The mediator could help them decide the major points, but lawyers would still be needed to work out the details.

What I'm trying to say is, if you want your future spouse to enter into a prenup, and you've drafted the first version, you must be careful that her lawyer isn't the first person to tell her about all the pitfalls that your lawyer has set up for her.

[seeniorita]

Originally Posted by chanceryan

I'm not married nor am I currently involved. But I began to wonder how to go about asking my future Ms.Ryan that she will need to sign a prenuptial.

I've heard over the years the pros and cons to the subject and realized it is something I will definitely have to get done before tying the knot.

Problem is I have no idea how to go about approaching this w/ her. How do I respond to her questions/queries?

I know many women would say well your damning the Marriage before it begins, but in my eyes it simply protecting both of us in the event it were to take place.

So I'm here CD for your advice.

I will have to see a list of all of your assests and liabilities to properly answer this question for you.

[Redisca]

Originally Posted by Thursday007

It can be designated he/she recieve a percentage of stipulated acquired assets that increase with each year of the marriage for example or a settlement of xyz that increases with each year. I think you are missing my point completely.

Actually, I think we are talking past each other. Imagine, you hire a lawyer to draft you a prenup. Your lawyer is only YOUR lawyer -- he is not your fiance's lawyer. He is protecting YOUR interests -- not your fiance's interests. And the piece of paper that he drafts, however fair you may consider it, cannot fairly be said to protect your fiance from YOU. For your lawyer to say something to the contrary to your fiance would be a disbarrable offense. For YOU to say it wouldn't be illegal, but it would certainly be unethical. Bottom line, you say you want a prenup, give them a piece of paper, and don't make any statements that can even remotely be interpreted as designed to discourage your fiance from seeking his own legal representation -- like, for example, that you've already drafted a document designed to protect both of you.

[Djuna]

I would never marry a man who wanted a prenup and I would never request one from a man. I don't give a rat's a** if he wants to protect his assets, if he doesn't trust me to not be a money grubbing shrew then I don't want him. If I don't trust him not to do the same, we would not be a couple.