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Old 05-09-2010, 07:18 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
14,628 posts, read 8,727,739 times
Reputation: 14936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
From my memory, women who have been born and raised in Mexico approach the role of a wife differently from American women. Mexican women cook excellent nutritious meals, they are supportive of their husbands, and they look after their children much more closer then Amercian women as a whole; it's the byproduct of being a more closer unit family.

Mexican men, on the other hand, work HARD to ensure the wife has a roof over her head, money to take care of basic family needs and he takes care of all the outside house work like cutting the grass and so forth.

It's an awesome set up, and it works so as long as the male does not abuse his powers and start screwing other women on the side (happens a lot in this culture as some men can have 2 sets of families), and so as along as the woman does not spend more then the house needs on frivolous stuff (which only seems to happen after a Mexican woman becomes Americanized) .

I live in Los Angeles (which is like living in Mexico on many levels) and I happen to have quite a few girlfriends who are Latinas.

From the woman's perspective, the culture is patriarchal and does not necessarily benefit women very well. There is not a great deal of respect given to women (although this is changing)

In general, there is a great disrespect in the culture (usually amongst the middle and lower classes) for the following:

A woman who chooses higher education over immediately attempting to start a family after high school

A woman who is not married with children by the age of 30

A woman who dares to "question" her man regarding anything (including extramartial affairs, spending the family's savings selfishly, etc)


I think that American men who look at the women of other cultures as some sort of untapped resource of "fembots" are being very short-sighted and are under a "greener grass" illusion of womanhood.

The women of other cultures are products of the dynamics of and limitations placed on them by their cultures. I always find it interesting that American men lament these women being "Americanized" thus losing their appeal of being idealistic Stepford wives (chefs in the kitchen, maid in the living room and wh-res in the bedroom).

Did it ever occur to American men that once these "perfect wives" have access to higher education, better jobs and capital (provided by their new American hubbies) to start businesses - they abandon the subservient roles to which they had been chained in their native lands?

For foreign women, becoming "Americanized" actually means gaining their freedom to decide their lives for themselves and not being bound to the demands of the men in their lives. All women know that it is easier to walk away from a relationship that is unfulfilling (or even abusive) when a woman has her own resources and ability to support herself.

Also, American men tend to prefer the idea that these "fembot" women have little sayso within these "ideal" families. A woman's lot in life is relegated to her husbands efforts - she needs to be happy with what the man decides is adequate for the family. If the husband is a philandering alcoholic who spends the whole paycheck on booze before paying the bills or buying food for the children, a woman in these situations has no recourse but to hope and pray for a change in her husband's behavior.

And American men wonder why foreign women:

1) Pursue American men to get to the United States

2) Become "Americanized" once they get here

 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:20 PM
 
18,981 posts, read 11,128,993 times
Reputation: 13052
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuinlalaland View Post
Everyone serves someone.
This reminds me of the church. Christ serves god, the church serves Christ, men serve the church, women serve the men, and the children are warped into ninnies that write blogs.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:20 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,172,687 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthsideJacksonville View Post
Whether you or anyone wants to admit it or not, there will be times where a leadership role is needed. No one wants a mate that's going to constantly challenge them on everything.
They key to a good marriage is cooperation, not subjugation, or "constant challenge". In essence you claim that the husband should always overrule the wife, because her wishes would always be contrary to his. How is that a relationship between equals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthsideJacksonville View Post
You can be submissive, yet still have your own mind.
Yeah, that perfectly describes a slave. A slave has his own mind. If his master tells him to jump off a cliff, the slave is free to think it's a bad idea. If the master is especially benevolent, the slave may even say something -- but he'd better do as he's told. But hey, at least he can disagree in his mind. Incidentally, how would you like to be submissive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthsideJacksonville View Post
From this standpoint, there would be no hierarchy in business, government or any other entity because everyone would be too busy making their own decisions.
Actually, many businesses function as partnerships where two or more partners have equal decision-making power. They don't take the plunge unless they all agree, or at least the majority. Most law firms are structured that way. There may be hierarchical levels in partnerships, but at the top, there are usually at least two equal partners. And law firms are doing fine in this country, wouldn't you say? As for government, the longest-running republic in history -- the Roman republic -- was headed by two councils, who were equals. It was designed that way on purpose, to avoid tyranny. In our own government, we have a complex system of checks and balances, that prevents any one entity or individual from dominating. You could say the Supreme Court has the last word on everything, but then, it consists of 9 judges with equal votes. In other words, your analogy fails completely.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northside)
2,908 posts, read 3,402,929 times
Reputation: 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuinlalaland View Post
Everyone serves someone.
True. In a roundabout way, we all are servants. In a relationship, anytime you compromise you're in a sense, serving the other person.

Quote:
I find the goal to control others to be pathetic. Such a person is of the lowest common denominator. I say they should get up and off their lazy arses, learn how to cook and learn how to take care of their brood.
Just like such a person is of the lowest common demoninator that constantly challenges everything you do. Yet, these same women spew a bunch of crap about how they want a take-charge man and when a man shows a little strength and leadership, women want to play the "you're being too controlling, let me have my own mind" angle. As far as cooking is concerned, I know how to cook so that's no issue there. Look, there's nothing wrong with having something going for yourself; I want a woman with her own mind but I also want someone that knows when to play her position. Everyone can't be chiefs, some of us have to be indians.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:25 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,172,687 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthsideJacksonville View Post
True. In a roundabout way, we all are servants. In a relationship, anytime you compromise you're in a sense, serving the other person.
Baloney. What you want, is for men to be servants in a "roundabout way", and for women to be servants in a literal way. That doesn't quite work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthsideJacksonville View Post
Look, there's nothing wrong with having something going for yourself; I want a woman with her own mind but I also want someone that knows when to play her position. Everyone can't be chiefs, some of us have to be indians.
In other words, you want a woman who "knows her place", but at the same time, isn't so helpless that you have to actually micromanage her. Kind of like a self-programming toaster.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:29 PM
 
Location: North America
1,089 posts, read 1,306,061 times
Reputation: 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
This reminds me of the church. Christ serves god, the church serves Christ, men serve the church, women serve the men, and the children are warped into ninnies that write blogs.
I was thinking in terms of your beloved career. You serve your boss. Or you serve your clients. You also serve the government by paying your taxes and following its laws. The entire notion that anyone is even remotely free of obligation to others is the most asinine comment on this thread so far.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:34 PM
 
18,981 posts, read 11,128,993 times
Reputation: 13052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
Actually, many businesses function as partnerships where two or more partners have equal decision-making power. They don't take the plunge unless they all agree, or at least the majority. Most law firms are structured that way. There may be hierarchical levels in partnerships, but at the top, there are usually at least two equal partners. And law firms are doing fine in this country, wouldn't you say? As for government, the longest-running republic in history -- the Roman republic -- was headed by two councils, who were equals. It was designed that way on purpose, to avoid tyranny. In our own government, we have a complex system of checks and balances, that prevents any one entity or individual from dominating. You could say the Supreme Court has the last word on everything, but then, it consists of 9 judges with equal votes. In other words, your analogy fails completely.
Redisca, that's just awesome. Ya know I'd rep you if I could.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,172,687 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuinlalaland View Post
You serve your boss.
I serve my boss for a limited time every day. My boss does not lord over my life. He has no entitlement to know certain areas of my life, and he does not make decisions that affect me outside of the employment relationship. Also, my boss does not rob me of my individuality: I sign my own briefs; I appear in court; I don't function through him. I get to exercise my judgment, and my accomplishments belong to me first, and to my boss second (if at all).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuinlalaland View Post
Or you serve your clients.
Again, my relationship with my clients is for a limited purpose. I don't sleep with my clients. I don't cook for my clients. My clients don't tell me what to spend my money on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuinlalaland View Post
You also serve the government by paying your taxes and following its laws.
And I have a whole bunch of civil rights that limit what the government can and cannot make me do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuinlalaland View Post
The entire notion that anyone is even remotely free of obligation to others is the most asinine comment on this thread so far.
Obligations do not amount to subjugation -- otherwise you wouldn't be arguing for women's subjugation to men, but not vice versa. Your whole argument is that women are obligated to have no independent existence and just do as they are told by their men, and that women who dare dedicate one minute of their lives or one dollar of their money to themselves are "too demanding". That is an asinine notion.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:40 PM
 
18,981 posts, read 11,128,993 times
Reputation: 13052
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthsideJacksonville View Post
Just like such a person is of the lowest common denominator that constantly challenges everything you do.
If you're partner is constantly challenging everything you do, you are either doing something very wrong or you are only capable of a dysfunctional relationship.

Quote:
Yet, these same women spew a bunch of crap about how they want a take-charge man and when a man shows a little strength and leadership, women want to play the "you're being too controlling, let me have my own mind" angle. As far as cooking is concerned, I know how to cook so that's no issue there. Look, there's nothing wrong with having something going for yourself; I want a woman with her own mind but I also want someone that knows when to play her position. Everyone can't be chiefs, some of us have to be indians.
These same women? What women? I'll never understand why the lot of you assume that the women that would consider dating you are somehow representative of all women.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 07:43 PM
 
18,981 posts, read 11,128,993 times
Reputation: 13052
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuinlalaland View Post
I was thinking in terms of your beloved career. You serve your boss. Or you serve your clients. You also serve the government by paying your taxes and following its laws. The entire notion that anyone is even remotely free of obligation to others is the most asinine comment on this thread so far.
I do not serve them. I can quit my job at will. I can tell a client to screw off. The government steals my money. I don't give it freely. Again, the fact that you people think you are entitled to service by women is so ridiculous. Who the heck do you think you are any way?
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