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Old 05-21-2010, 12:53 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,352,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
Studies have been done to back up most every theory; doesn't make each of them necessarily correct.
I mean, to me, it's not just about the studies, it's common sense.

If you have more things on your plate, you're less likely to dwell on any of those one things too much.

If you're a person who feels you only have one option, you might speed up the process if you feel it's inevitable.

Girls who feel that getting pregnant is their only option in their future that will make them feel and be an adult in the eyes of society is likely to make that choice, or stay with it if she gets pregnant.

A girl who has a soccer scholarship to a good university, where she loves soccer and has aspirations to go into architectural design is less likely to keep a baby if she gets pregnant because there's more she wants to accomplish in her life first.

 
Old 05-21-2010, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
Build ten thousand bridges and suck one d***, to the world you're not a bridge-builder, you're a **** sucker.

Horribly crude, but there is a certain truth to it no matter how much some folks may wish to pretty it up. Simply WANTING a world where everything is open and folks' opinions are logical and fair doesn't make it so, and idealistic kids often find their opinions gratuitously clouded by the desires of the moment.
I've never lived in a small town, so I can't speak to the experience of living in one. But it seems to me that the adage you quoted probably holds some water there.

However, it's not true where I live and I would guess in bigger, more metropolitan areas.

First off, people ARE more open-minded about these things in cities and they don't judge based on the number of people you've slept with.

Secondly, in a small town, if you "suck a d***" as you so delicately put it, everyone probably hears about it. In a bigger city, not so much. You could probably suck 50 d***'s a year and no one you met on the street or in a bar would be any wiser.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
2,985 posts, read 2,300,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I've never lived in a small town, so I can't speak to the experience of living in one. But it seems to me that the adage you quoted probably holds some water there.

However, it's not true where I live and I would guess in bigger, more metropolitan areas.

First off, people ARE more open-minded about these things in cities and they don't judge based on the number of people you've slept with.

Secondly, in a small town, if you "suck a d***" as you so delicately put it, everyone probably hears about it. In a bigger city, not so much. You could probably suck 50 d***'s a year and no one you met on the street or in a bar would be any wiser.

Let's clarify something here: I live in a small town now, and I grew up in one. In the between times I've lived in larger cities and all over the world, to include England, Italy and Japan.

And I've seen or heard about this same stuff elsewhere; it's NOT unique to these United States, let alone any one region.

This phenomenon isn't just about the size of one's town, it's everywhere. Moreover, we're talking about kids. A school IS their "town"; it's the place where they socialize and play and work and most of all, where they spend time building their reputations at this stage in their lives.

That's pretty much the definition of a town or a city: It's where we live, and dance around it all you want, so much of a teen's life takes place at school it's a major part of their collective life.

Meeting you in a bar isn't even part of the question here: TEENS.

Meeting you on the street -- don't pretend that once one goes home one is simply LOST in the big city shuffle if a teen. There are friends and enemies from school with whom one associates or is outcast at home and on the street as well as at school.

Your turn again.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:09 PM
 
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I said this earlier, but I wanted to elaborate on it more. Girls are physically maturing faster (i.e. getting their periods at an earlier age) than they used to be. I think this could be attributed to a number of reasons.

1) Hormones in food.

2) Whites becoming more of a minority. I think I remember reading that the average age for a white american to get her period used to be 14 or 15. For people from hotter climates, that age number is lower (I'll explain why in my next point), so now that whites are less of a majority, when you get the average age of female "maturity", it's going to be lower now.

3) Also something maybe to look at: cultures/races that come from hotter climates closer to the Equator and Africa tend to get their periods earlier (and therefore mature faster sexually) than people ancestrally from colder climates far from the Equator. (This has been scientifically proven, and it makes sense because people historically from hotter climates have a shorter life span than those from northern climates so it follows logically that those who live shorter lives would want to start reproducing earlier).

So what happens when a bunch of women get put together, like in the same classes every day? Their periods sync up. So those from hotter climates may be triggering those who culturally come from northern climates.

Just some thoughts.

If it is true that the average age for a girl to get her period has dropped across the board, or lowered a few years for whites, it's possible that all this "oversexuality" is stemming from THAT. Nothing but sheer hormones. If that's the case, it could also be driving the Lindsey Lohan's and Britney Spears', not the other way around.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
2,985 posts, read 2,300,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I said this earlier, but I wanted to elaborate on it more. Girls are physically maturing faster (i.e. getting their periods at an earlier age) than they used to be. I think this could be attributed to a number of reasons.

1) Hormones in food.

2) Whites becoming more of a minority. I think I remember reading that the average age for a white american to get her period used to be 14 or 15. For people from hotter climates, that age number is lower (I'll explain why in my next point), so now that whites are less of a majority, when you get the average age of female "maturity", it's going to be lower now.

3) Also something maybe to look at: cultures/races that come from hotter climates closer to the Equator and Africa tend to get their periods earlier (and therefore mature faster sexually) than people ancestrally from colder climates far from the Equator. (This has been scientifically proven, and it makes sense because people historically from hotter climates have a shorter life span than those from northern climates so it follows logically that those who live shorter lives would want to start reproducing earlier).

So what happens when a bunch of women get put together, like in the same classes every day? Their periods sync up. So those from hotter climates may be triggering those who culturally come from northern climates.

Just some thoughts.

If it is true that the average age for a girl to get her period has dropped across the board, or lowered a few years for whites, it's possible that all this "oversexuality" is stemming from THAT. Nothing but sheer hormones. If that's the case, it could also be driving the Lindsey Lohan's and Britney Spears', not the other way around.


THIS I can get behind. Phytoestrogens and various xenoestrogens are literally everywhere. Girls are developing much earlier on the whole. I recall quite clearly 11-year-old girls getting breasts back in school but I recall NOTHING like that back in second and third grade at 7 and 8 years old -- yet we're seeing that kind of thing today on a notable basis. Not quite daily but FAR from unknown.

We use steroids in our beef and in our dairy (I know, I grew up injecting cattle). Many of the chemicals we use daily can break down into forms of estrogens which we ingest OR can be ingested and then break down.

Those semi-soapy rings left where your dishes didn't quite rinse away all the stuff from the dishwasher? You know, the ones that make your teflon-coated pans look spotty inside? You can save your sons and daughters a LOT of estrogens by cleaning that stuff off.

A lot of folks argue against the notion and tell us our bodies are designed to slough off a certain amount of extras -- and it's true, up to a point. Question is, how much is even being taken into account, let alone the actual amount the body can slough off before things start taking effect on some level.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:20 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,352,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
Meeting you on the street -- don't pretend that once one goes home one is simply LOST in the big city shuffle if a teen. There are friends and enemies from school with whom one associates or is outcast at home and on the street as well as at school.
I actually addressed this earlier in the thread.

First off, kids can meet new kids online and they may meet kids from other schools. If they're not from a small town, all these kids don't necessarily know one another. In the county where I grew up, as an example, there are about 8 public high schools in the county spread about 20 miles apart, but there are only 3 major malls. It's possible that as a teenager you could go to a mall and not know over half of the other teens in the mall, esp. if you didn't go to the mall closest to your house.

Secondly, there are double standards for popular kids. At least there were in my school growing up. Some girls acted "slutty" and slept around and people talked smack about them and belittled them. But some of the girls that were the same age and in the same grade, acted similarly and no one batted an eye at their behavior because they were "popular".

Now, I know you're going to say that these are just *my* experiences and you're right. And I'm not trying to say that my experiences are universal, because they're probably not. But I'm sure that my school and experiences are not supremely unique, either. I'm sure there are at least a few out there like mine.

My point to you is that what you're saying is not universal and that you're not forever branded a d*** sucker if you perform oral sex on a few guys. All of that depends on where you live, and quite frankly, your social status within your school community. I honestly think that this behavior, outside of small towns, is going to get more commonplace where people don't really think much of it anymore.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I think the real question is that as long as the teenage girls aren't getting pregnant and making babies and as long as they aren't getting or spreading STD's, are promiscuous girls really a problem? I'm talking societally here, not religiously. Obviously if it's against your religion to have sex before marriage, then it's a problem whether or not you're a teen girl.
Religion has nothing to do with it yet some seem to always want to make it a religious issue when it is not.

It's a nature issue.

Except for the coo-coo bird birds don't lay eggs until the nest is built.

In the mammal kingdom animals from rats to rabbits to aardvarks don't have babies until the nest is built.

There are reasons for this... young born before the shelter of a nest is prepared puts them at great risk. For a 17 year old girl it isn't so much the sex that does the damage it's the consequences of that sex.

With sex two things are more likely to happen... sex makes babies and sex can spread disease. Both are big time consequences and 99% of 16 and 17 year old girls are not prepared to deal with these consequences either financially or emotionally.

I remember my senior year and my first girlfriend. We'd go necking on lovers lane and oh I we BOTH so wanted to but we never did. Know why? 1)she new their would be serious consequences for her if she got pregnant and I knew beyond a doubt her dad, the same dad that fought Germans in Germany, would have killed me. I have no doubt he would have literally killed me if I caused his daughter to get pregnant. Seriously, he would have and I knew it.

But today mtv and society has rewarded girls for having babies before they are ready. Today girls are lauded, treated to special high school classes, given free housing along with WIC food and food stamps. They are even rewarded with money to have babies out of wedlock the more babies they have the more the rewards.

Society pays and in more than one way. We pay with feral kids lacking civilization growing up in our midst and guys who have zero responsibility.

The problem will only get worse as we continue to shield our young from the consequences of their stupid actions.

Que the "but whales and dolphins do" people but that is beside the point.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
2,985 posts, read 2,300,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post

My point to you is that what you're saying is not universal and that you're not forever branded a d*** sucker if you perform oral sex on a few guys. All of that depends on where you live, and quite frankly, your social status within your school community. I honestly think that this behavior, outside of small towns, is going to get more commonplace where people don't really think much of it anymore.

You're thinking too small.

For example, YES, you can go to the mall and possibly not know half the teens hanging out there -- I can't possibly argue against that.

Ever hear of networking? You know half of them... and some of them know some others... and so on, and so on, just like the old Clairol commercial.

But that's not where it stops. For example, you're absolutely correct when you say that just because you are not forever branded a d*** sucker just because you perform oral sex on a few guys.

You ARE labeled one with those guys, especially if they know each other and certainly depending on the circumstances surrounding said oral gratification. Were you alone with one, or was this a group thing? Were you in any kind of relationship, or was this just a blow-n-go? Were you outed as the mouth on the other side of a glory hole?

It continues from there. Let's not make it the worst case scenario but at least feasible: You did one guy you were seeing, and then things went badly. He was a jerk, he bragged to his buddies, and then he dumped you. A couple of weeks later (Ah, the fleeting nature of most teen romance...) you were dating another guy. Things were great at first, and he seemed to really like you BUT being a teenage boy he was, of course, greatly interested in sexual gratification. There was pressure and, unfortunately, mention of the fact that it got around you blew your last boyfriend.

How does that simple pressure make you feel, knowing that despite that this boy clearly does like you, he also knows about that thing... with the other guy... It's no good pretending the teen in this hypothetical scenario is all grown up and mature enough to handle the emotional rollercoaster, that's just NOT how kids are. The teen years are riddled and rife with angst and insecurities; it's the nature of the beast.

So let's say since it's JUST oral sex it's no big deal, so you give in. He likes it and maybe even reciprocates, you continue to share a relationship, etc.

The girls at school are all talking about who they're sleeping with. After all kids tend to be in a race to PROVE their maturity, often in the most juvenile fashion available, which tends to be sex these days. Where does the conversation go? Do you share in order to fit in? Do you stay quiet? Let's not pretend girls don't talk -- everyone talks. Everyone.

So you share since they're all doing it too; and then one of the girls goes and tells your boyfriend you were telling about it in detail (maybe true, maybe not) and he figures it's okay for HIM to talk now, so he does. The guys who hear are now looking for their shot because one guy might have been a fluke but two -- you LIKE it!

Now you're getting tons of male attention, some more pointed, some casual, but for a teenage girl that's a HEADY thing (no pun intended) and so you break up for a boy you'd rather be with, more popular, better looking, what have you...

On the first date he brings this up and unzips, since everyone KNOWS you like to do this.

Congrats, not even three guys yet and you've got a rep for licking the stick. Kids not only talk, they make things up and exaggerate, so your rep is that you're a real HOUND for this, practically taking it by force. Neither of your exes actually said such a thing but since when does logic really enter into it?

But you don't do Guy Number Three; instead you're angry and you storm out of the car and find a way home, seeking to reinstitute your dignity. You're angry and maybe you're crying a little bit.

Kids are a bit like pack animals who, sensing weakness, exploit it, attack it relentlessly.

At school they're latching onto your weakness and the name-calling begins since you've elicited either the hostility or the condescending focus of the boy you ditched. Sure, your friends stick by you and offer solace, but will it be enough? Everyone wants to be tough enough and mature enough to say yes, but for how many is that answer simply NO?

The slow, downward slide of diminishing self-esteem has not only begun but is picking up speed.

Let's even say nothing worse than a disgusting nickname comes out of it and things settle.

You leave, go off to college, changing your life, turning in the old ways for a new phase. The first month things are fine, and then at a nearby table you happen to see an old high school acquaintance -- and not a friendly one. You lock eyes for a second. You halfway smile, she turns away to the rest of the young women sitting at the table and speaks in a low voice. All eyes look your way and you simply read it in their expressions.

Sure, sure -- you're mature enough to walk out of the dining hall with dignity and tell yourself you don't care what they think -- but will you go back to that dining hall or feel you should change your dining habits for the sake of avoidance?


Everything I'm saying here is fictional, purely hypothetical -- but it's also entirely realistic and feasible for a LOT of young women who are coping with the pains of growing up. In the ideal world where NOBODY makes a big deal out of it, nothing would matter -- but that isn't the real world, not by a long shot.

And you may be correct. It may get so it simply doesn't matter in the least to anyone -- but at that stage you'll have to ask yourself precisely what humanity has given up. You may say they're given up immaturity, but I'd be forced to reference some Huxley.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 02:36 PM
 
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So basically the question is, why do teens like sex? Do I find it irresponsible of teens to have sex. Yes. Does ignorance of understanding possible consequence come into play? Yes. Teens have been told for generations to not have sex and yet they continue to do so. It's more widely known now with the advent of the instant media age.

Do I like the fact kids are having sex. No. Do I understand why they do it? Yes. Hell, we all were hondog kids at one point. The only thing we can do is try to educate them as has been done for years and hope for the best. The best not being the complete erradication of what nature intended, but rather the understanding of the responsibilities of what may occur after the act is complete.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 02:39 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,352,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
Everything I'm saying here is fictional, purely hypothetical -- but it's also entirely realistic and feasible for a LOT of young women who are coping with the pains of growing up. In the ideal world where NOBODY makes a big deal out of it, nothing would matter -- but that isn't the real world, not by a long shot.
I'm sure that somewhere for some girl at some time, that has been her experience. But, I don't think it's universal. Mostly, I think it has to do with the girl's self-esteem and how correctly she can "read" the social culture of her school.

Some teen girls are smart enough to think 5 steps ahead as to how people will react to whatever. If she's worried about her rep and knows it wouldn't be kosher for her to perform oral, she won't do it. If the cultural of oral is commonplace, she probably won't think too much about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
And you may be correct. It may get so it simply doesn't matter in the least to anyone -- but at that stage you'll have to ask yourself precisely what humanity has given up. You may say they're given up immaturity, but I'd be forced to reference some Huxley.
In Europe they're much more lax about sex. They're not as tense when talking about sex or having sex with each other. They show breasts on public TV. Sex is considered "natural" and commonplace and there's not an emphasis on having sex only with the person you marry. I think that's the natural progression for most post-industrial societies. But as a society, America is relatively young. I think it's something we'll eventually grow into, and the "oversexuality" we're seeing now may just be us already heading in that direction.
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