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She does lie about everything -- everything. I simply picked one of the most damaging examples in order to demonstrate how I've attempted to deal with it, by bringing my awareness of her lying and the damage it's caused to HER attention.
You see, liars are habitual; however, there's also a childish tendency for them to keep lying because they think they're getting away with it. And as with a child, it often requires repetition before a point gets hammered through -- after all, these are people who have reached adulthood and are often even approaching middle-age who have somehow managed to hang onto one of the most juvenile aspects of growing up: Failure to accept responsibility for one's selfishness.
In the end lying is about profit. It's about achieving ends, getting something one wants, reaping SOME kind of reward -- however fleeting -- and doing it by means for which one fears disapproval from someone else, fears some form of consequence.
Adults know we can't have everything we want in this world, and we know we're ultimately responsible for our actions and decisions. Liars are looking for a way around that.
Is your therapy on her working? Is she improving or does she still lie whenever she thinks she can get by with it?
I would think it would be very difficult to have such a partner in marriage, since marriage is based on trust.
Although - I have a cousin who makes up stuff all the time, she would never cheat on her husband, she would never steal, she's not unethical in any way and her lies aren't about trying to stay out of trouble. She'll tell you some real whoppers and with a straight face but she's benign, she doesn't lie to cover up, she doesn't lie to hurt anyone. For her it's like making a good story or non-story better. I'm not sure the motives because sometimes the disconnect with reality is too blatant, she can't think her listeners believe her.
Her marriage seems strong but maybe because she's a good person in spite of her tall tales.
I paid attention. What the OP actually said was, "I am out of his life, but would like those who are still his friends to help him stop lying." Maybe you misread, not I. You made an assumption that she was still his friend (even though she went to some lengths to say that although this was the case at some point, it was not now) and suggested she approach him in that vein. I'm sorry you feel so defensive about making a simple mistake.
You know, rereading, I can see where I made the mistake.
What I'm curious about is why it was such a big deal to you there was need to quote it and come looking for me?
Is your therapy on her working? Is she improving or does she still lie whenever she thinks she can get by with it?
I would think it would be very difficult to have such a partner in marriage, since marriage is based on trust.
Although - I have a cousin who makes up stuff all the time, she would never cheat on her husband, she would never steal, she's not unethical in any way and her lies aren't about trying to stay out of trouble. She'll tell you some real whoppers and with a straight face but she's benign, she doesn't lie to cover up, she doesn't lie to hurt anyone. For her it's like making a good story or non-story better. I'm not sure the motives because sometimes the disconnect with reality is too blatant, she can't think her listeners believe her.
Her marriage seems strong but maybe because she's a good person in spite of her tall tales.
Some of it worked; for example, she's improved drastically where the bank accounts are concerned (although we have two joint, her original accounts with my name on them, because I can't trust her to turn over her earnings for household accounts on her own, and others separate, in my name only, for the household accounting).
Around the house the lying seems to have slowed down, although I honestly can't say whether that's because of improvement on her part or because since I don't care the way I once did I'm questioning her less, ignoring certain actions on her part so long as they don't actually cause damage.
For example, she used to lie about things which concerned our infant son. At first these caused damage TO HIM (such as whether or not she'd made certain he was covered during a chilly night -- seriously, WHY LIE about something like that?!?) and I was frustrated because I was juggling other balls such as finances, home improvement, bills she was racking up, etc. Once I caught on that she was lying, I began with simple confrontation. The problem with simply confronting a liar is they'll lie to get out of whatever perceived disapproval they've incurred.
Since my son is my primary concern I simply took over his care entirely, trusting her for only small things which I still monitor.
So technically, I can't say whether lying has improved because she's gotten better or because she has less need or opportunity to lie.
The difference between our son and the bank is that I CAN control what's happening with our son where necessary but I cannot have sole control over her paycheck -- it's not financially feasible. Ergo, I have to control what I can and simply accept that IF I don't make it in early enough and transfer the money, I may very well discover that an entire paycheck has simply gone the way of the wind. That's why I took over one and had to go with direct, confrontational reasoning on the other.
OP - this man is 50 years old. There is no way in hell that you or anyone else can help him to stop lying. Seems to me as if it was his pattern the entire life. Lie and cheat until he gets caught, than lie his way out of trouble after getting caught and then continue lying after he gets a second chance or forgiveness. Now that you are not giving him the time of day, he is lying to get you back.
You can't help him. You can help yourself by cutting down all communication with his friends. They must know what he is made of and playing into his lies.
You don't need this toxicity in your life.
My empathy today must be nonexistent, because I just do not get how someone can spend four years being constantly lied to and cheated on, then another several months of more lies and deception, and still say, "I love him and want the best for him."
My empathy today must be nonexistent, because I just do not get how someone can spend four years being constantly lied to and cheated on, then another several months of more lies and deception, and still say, "I love him and want the best for him."
I understand what you mean, but I also understand OP. Sometimes you just can't help whom you love and the fact that she still wants the best for him after all these years shows a lot about her character (at least for me, in a good way).
Last edited by max's mama; 06-01-2010 at 08:12 AM..
Reason: grammar. Thanks JJ.
I understand what you mean, but I also understand OP. Sometimes you just can't help who you love and the fact that she still wants the best for him after all these years shows a lot about her character (at least for me, in a good way).
Well, sure. Brotherly love is a good thing. But "you can't help whom you love" is not. People are addicted to all kinds of things that are bad for them, including people.
You know, rereading, I can see where I made the mistake.
What I'm curious about is why it was such a big deal to you there was need to quote it and come looking for me?
I think it's clear from my post that I simply questioned your asking why you would suggest she contact him when it was clear she had nothing more to do with him. Why are you assuming it was a "big deal" to me or that "there was need to quote it and come looking for me?" How peculiar. But if having the last word is important to you then consider it done.
Lindasan I hope everything works out for you. All the best to you for future happiness and much less disappointment. Cheers!
Well, sure. Brotherly love is a good thing. But "you can't help whom you love" is not. People are addicted to all kinds of things that are bad for them, including people.
Well, in this situation OP was also a liar. She was lying to herself that this man will change for her. Unfortunately these things just don't happen. People change very rarely, especially after 40.
Well, in this situation OP was also a liar. She was lying to herself that this man will change for her. Unfortunately these things just don't happen. People change very rarely, especially after 40.
I agree!
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