The Book Challenge (church, Earth, evidence, demons)

[Jazzedforhim]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Hey, how about this while we are waiting?

What do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that agrees with your current position?

And what do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that disagrees with your current position?

This will give us something to discuss while waiting on UPS.

Agrees with position: I hope to learn more about secualar documentation of the biblical accounts

Disagrees with position: I hope to learn...everything! I don't know that much about the position against from an atheists perspective! Altho...I'm getting quite the education right here!

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Hey, how about this while we are waiting?

What do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that agrees with your current position?

And what do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that disagrees with your current position?

This will give us something to discuss while waiting on UPS.

Yeah, I just can't stand UPS. Maybe that's because I work for FedEx.

Anyway, my book is supposed to be here around the 16th and I am just about to finish a book I have been trying to read for a while now. Anyway, I am looking forward to reading it.

My only fear is that the book will answer most of the questions I have posted on this forum and I'll run out of things to post No, seriously, I can't say I have read a book from the Christian side explaining why I should believe in Jesus/God that doesn't reference the Bible consistently as a source of why I should. We atheists are looking for scientific evidence and that is what I hope this book will attempt to give me.

The only other thing is: I have not yet read "The God Delusion" and I feel like maybe I should read it before "I Don't Have..." or I am going to really feel left out of the conversation.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Yeah, I just can't stand UPS. Maybe that's because I work for FedEx.

Anyway, my book is supposed to be here around the 16th and I am just about to finish a book I have been trying to read for a while now. Anyway, I am looking forward to reading it.

My only fear is that the book will answer most of the questions I have posted on this forum and I'll run out of things to post No, seriously, I can't say I have read a book from the Christian side explaining why I should believe in Jesus/God that doesn't reference the Bible consistently as a source of why I should. We atheists are looking for scientific evidence and that is what I hope this book will attempt to give me.

The only other thing is: I have not yet read "The God Delusion" and I feel like maybe I should read it before "I Don't Have..." or I am going to really feel left out of the conversation.

You won't be left out of the conversation, I haven't read it (God Delusion) either. and I'm only about half way through the FTBA(my new abbreviation for I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be an Atheist.)

Also, I don't think I've seen any scripture quoted so far the FTAA, but I'm only half through. MontanaGuy, do the scripture references get thick?

Actually, GCTroop, their big thing is to argue God using science, logic, and Truth. I think it'll be right up your alley.

[MontanaGuy]

Alpha wrote:

What do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that agrees with your current position?

And what do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that disagrees with your current position?

I'm hopeful that the believers and non-believers might find certain areas of agreement on certain details. I realize we probably won't get to the end of our discussions and have someone switch sides. That would be truly incredible. I think ideally that both sides of the argument would have to acknowledge certain things about their beliefs. Atheists need to admit that the universe is a long way from being explained and we really don't know everything. Believers might want to reexamine certain interpretations of their religion, in particular, the old earth creation versus a young earth creation.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

Alpha wrote:

I'm hopeful that the believers and non-believers might find certain areas of agreement on certain details. I realize we probably won't get to the end of our discussions and have someone switch sides. That would be truly incredible. I think ideally that both sides of the argument would have to acknowledge certain things about their beliefs. Atheists need to admit that the universe is a long way from being explained and we really don't know everything. Believers might want to reexamine certain interpretations of their religion, in particular, the old earth creation versus a young earth creation.

Oh the Dawkins book goes into that?

Awesome. I thought it was going to be more of a rant. Now I'm not so paranoid.

[MontanaGuy]

Alpha wrote:

MontanaGuy, do the scripture references get thick?

Most of the scripture references are in the section about the life of Jesus. A great deal of the book doesn't have any and they do a good job of trying to lay out an argument from a rational point of view. I think it's an excellent choice of a book. I was surprised at how much science they use to put forward their thoughts, particularly about the big bang and the acceptance that the universe had a beginning.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Oh the Dawkins book goes into that?

Awesome. I thought it was going to be more of a rant. Now I'm not so paranoid.

No, Dawkins, although clearly shows his dislike for religion, seems much more professional in his methods. He is a very eloquent writer and speaker and he's very understandable. That was one of the reasons I was so disappointed in the televised debate we talked about on the board a few months ago with Kirk Cameron and the other Atheists. The atheists were so unprofessional and downright rude that it really was quite embarassing. I wished that Richard Dawkins would have participated in the debate because he is not rude or snide, but merely very honest. I think you'll enjoy reading his books, and like MontanaGuy said wouldn't it be truly amazing for someone to switch sides right in the middle of it?? For either side?? Who knows maybe I'll be a Christian next month.... I wouldn't hold my breath

[june 7th]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Hey, how about this while we are waiting?

What do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that agrees with your current position?

And what do you hope to accomplish from reading the book that disagrees with your current position?

This will give us something to discuss while waiting on UPS.

I feel essay questions coming on!

-Just kidding Alpha! It sounds like a good idea to me. I'm game for anything!

[Miss Blue]

I agree with montana that we won't get anyone to become a believer or an athiest, but that is not our goal (not me, anyway), but I hope we can learn to be more tolerant and understanding of each others beliefs and non beliefs out in the real world. I hope that maybe with the knowledge I gain that I can stop some of the hate for the nonbelievers that comes from the christians that I encounter at home and around this area who shun anyone who is an athiest.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

No, Dawkins, although clearly shows his dislike for religion, seems much more professional in his methods. He is a very eloquent writer and speaker and he's very understandable. That was one of the reasons I was so disappointed in the televised debate we talked about on the board a few months ago with Kirk Cameron and the other Atheists. The atheists were so unprofessional and downright rude that it really was quite embarassing. I wished that Richard Dawkins would have participated in the debate because he is not rude or snide, but merely very honest. I think you'll enjoy reading his books, and like MontanaGuy said wouldn't it be truly amazing for someone to switch sides right in the middle of it?? For either side?? Who knows maybe I'll be a Christian next month.... I wouldn't hold my breath

That'd be awesome, GCSTroop. It really would.

But here's another question, if something like this led to a shift in beliefs, would pride get in the way of admitting it?

I mean, personally, I don't know if I could admit it. I'm sure that's something that I need to work on because I'm sure that's my pride saying that. I don't know if I could get myself to tell you guys you had convinced me.

But what about you guys? Any true Christian would never say 'I told you so' but would be so happy for you to believe. So, if you had an inkling or notion that there might be a God and possibly He's the one I believe in, would you say so, if even in private?

Just curious.