Why I Can't Agree (translation, disciples, hell, myth)

[jeffncandace]

Yes, more of the same from Jeff. If you find that the horse is dead already, and do not want to participate in beating it any further, then feel free to let this thread sink to the bottomless abyss of threads!

I can't agree that eternal torture is part of an all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing God.

Why? Well, I ask you...

Is God, in fact, allowing people to be tricked into eternal damnation? He created a universe in which people are born knowing nothing about why they were created and what their destiny is, but must frantically search for the one and only way, among thousands of competing religions, to escape being endlessly burned alive by their Creator simply for being imperfect and human. If they die before they have the chance even to look for the answer, too bad! If they mistakenly make the wrong religious decision, influenced by family and friends, the culture they live in, limited information, limited intelligence, and the deception of the devil — sorry, it’s eternal hell anyway!

Do you know what Jesus said? When talking to his disciples about his death on the cross and why he must be crucified, Jesus said, “I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” (John 12:32). Yes, he said all people. Not some, but all. That includes sinners and non-Christians. Unless Jesus plans to spend eternity in hell, it is safe to conclude that drawing all people to himself means drawing all into heaven.

“For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all…. For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.” (Rom. 11:32,36).

ATHIESTS--Do you find the Christian God as traditionally portrayed to be sadistic, as opposed to loving?

CHRISTIANS--Do you find God as portrayed from the Universalist standpoint to be lax on punishment? If so, why is an eternity of torture needed when God has the ability to reform sinners via His judgements, thus truly becoming all in all, and having perfect victory? This is the fulfillment of Scripture, is it not?

[zonababe]

Hell is just another part of the Christian fable, myth, story or parable. I don't think the Hubble telescope will ever zoom in on heaven or hell. That would be cool though, wouldn't it?

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by zonababe

Hell is just another part of the Christian fable, myth, story or parable. I don't think the Hubble telescope will ever zoom in on heaven or hell. That would be cool though, wouldn't it?

Are you an athiest? If so, do you find the Christian God as traditionally portrayed to be sadistic, as opposed to loving?

[emjbulls]

I can't even make the basic assumption of your question because I think Heaven and Hell are constructs of man forcing people to "behave" through fear.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by emjbulls

I can't even make the basic assumption of your question because I think Heaven and Hell are constructs of man forcing people to "behave" through fear.

Oh, come on you guys. I can't speak for every Christian here but I knew a few weeks ago we did a thread where Christians had to assume a non-believing position and alot of us did so, myself included.

Just make the assumption, simply for the sake of argument. Which makes the most sense to you?

[eufo]

My gut tells me that we are currently in Hell (metaphorically speaking). We still have the opportunity to "make things better", but the forces are against us and somehow we must toil through it to create Heaven on earth.

Its a theory anyway. Who knows?

[Trebek]

Hell is a temporary state of being caused by excessive bad karma.

The Christian Hell was stuck in there, during some of the many translations/revisions of the bible in order to keep the populus on the straight and narrow.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by Trebek

Hell is a temporary state of being caused by excessive bad karma.

The Christian Hell was stuck in there, during some of the many translations/revisions of the bible in order to keep the populus on the straight and narrow.

Ooh! Well, I agree somewhat. The understanding we currently have on hell is definately the result of translation errors and revisions done for political control of the populace. But you can't take it out completely or, IMO, you might as well throw it all out the window.

The Bible speaks clearly of punishment, and of rewards, for our actions in this life. But these punishments are remedial, I argue, reformative, and temporary!

I find it telling that two thirds of the Bible (the Old Testament) does not mention Hell at all. (“Sheol,” the Old Testament word that is sometimes translated as Hell, only means “grave” by definition, and it is where everyone in the Old Testament went when they died–good or evil, Jew or Gentile). Thus the Old Testament does not contain the concept of Hell!

[MontanaGuy]

I think hell is a mythological place whose main purpose is to persuade people to behave in a certain manner by threatening them with what amounts to eternal torture. It is an invention of the human imagination and represents at least in my mind the darker side of human beings.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

I think hell is a mythological place whose main purpose is to persuade people to behave in a certain manner by threatening them with what amounts to eternal torture. It is an invention of the human imagination and represents at least in my mind the darker side of human beings.

But what if it is real, but is not eternal torture? What if it is reformative? If you believed in God, would this change your view of Him?