Mind and Body - Separate or Same Thing? (agnostic, believe, heaven)

[solidsquid]

Since this is now a religion and philosophy forum, here's some philosophy to go with the religion:

Descartes was kind enough to popularize the "mind-body problem". The basics of it being that some hold what is known as a dualistic view being that mind and body are two separate yet cohabiting and interacting things. Monistic views hold that there is no separation between the two and that mind and body (or brain rather) are the same thing - mind actually being a product of the brain. And there are those who are in between.

My question here is what are your views on this and why do you hold that stance?

[mams1559]

Originally Posted by solidsquid

Since this is now a religion and philosophy forum, here's some philosophy to go with the religion:

Descartes was kind enough to popularize the "mind-body problem". The basics of it being that some hold what is known as a dualistic view being that mind and body are two separate yet cohabiting and interacting things. Monistic views hold that there is no separation between the two and that mind and body (or brain rather) are the same thing - mind actually being a product of the brain. And there are those who are in between.

My question here is what are your views on this and why do you hold that stance?

Wow... deep Maybe that's why no one has posted a reply. I'll attempt to, but warn you in advance, I'm not a student of philosophy and my answer may be far off base of what you're asking.

This is just my thoughts on the subject. My brain controls my body. My mind controls my brain. However, the essence of my mind is not solely within my brain, but part of my spirit. My mind/spirit uses my brain for various functions, both physical and mental. Mechanically by controlling my phycial body and functions. Mentally, like utilizing my brain as a filing cabinet or hard drive - creation of ideas/thoughts, storage of memories, experiences, etc.

But when my brain would die, my mind/spirit - the essence or what makes me .. well, me, would live on separate from my physical body. Those things unique to me, making me who I am, my identity, would be "downloaded" from my physical brain to my mind/spirit.

(WARNING: Religion about to be used!)

My mind/spirit will live on and receive a new, glorified body to which my mind/spirit will inhabit for eternity in heaven because I believe our essence or mind or spirit is separate from our physical body and will transcend this physical realm.

[Wanderlust07]

Originally Posted by solidsquid

Since this is now a religion and philosophy forum, here's some philosophy to go with the religion:

Descartes was kind enough to popularize the "mind-body problem". The basics of it being that some hold what is known as a dualistic view being that mind and body are two separate yet cohabiting and interacting things. Monistic views hold that there is no separation between the two and that mind and body (or brain rather) are the same thing - mind actually being a product of the brain. And there are those who are in between.

My question here is what are your views on this and why do you hold that stance?

First, thank you for starting this thread on a philosophical issue.

I think the mind and body are two separate things, and that the mind is of a "higher" order, if you will, than the body, which is merely an incredibly sophisticated and remarkable vessel for the mind. I don't think of the mind as something that is created within the brain; rather, it is temporarily housed, in this reality, in the brain. When we die, the "mind" moves on to the next place -- a different plane of existence, perhaps, or even the void..? I am a scientific-minded person, and I believe that while the body can be destroyed (since it is matter), the mind is energy, and that since energy cannot be destroyed, it moves on...somewhere.

It seems to me that the mind could exist without the body, while the body cannot "exist" in the sense of sapience and self-awareness, without a mind, hence my stance that the mind supersedes the body in importance. It is possible, to me, that people could exist without corporeal bodies at all, because their minds (essence) exist. Though Cartesian dualism holds the mind and body to be separate and distinct, I have seen sufficient examples of pyschosomatic disorders that I think that the mind has a degree of control over the body that we are not even consciously aware of, and that we may not have the faculties to understand. This suggests to me that the body may be an extension of the mind, with the mind acting as a "supercomputer" of sorts.

solidsquid, how would you answer your own question?

[solidsquid]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust07

solidsquid, how would you answer your own question?

I was hoping to give some others a chance to answer before I start on my long winded answer . If no one else chimes in soon, I'll post my thoughts.

[SepiaZelda]

I think it's difficult to discard all that we know about biology today in answering this question. What do we know about the body? We know its parts, right? (yes, I know we could go on for days about knowing) We know that a body degrades and its only direction is forward until its life ends. But what consists of life? Do we assign it to mere biology? or do we attribute characteristics that, while dependent on the body, are not necessarily demonstrable in the body?

Why, for instance, are some people shy, seemingly from the earliest recollection? Whether it is a nature or nurture, it is something that can't be found in the body and excised. Can you have a personality transplant? of course not; but you can make different choices. Anyway, if one is depedent on the other to be demonstrated it could be implied that they are, at the very least, related.

On the other hand, I am sometimes dependent on a cane to walk. Does that mean I am related to it? Well, why not? It contains human ingenuity, right? And biological material. But it is not a part of me, to be sure. We certainly also know that a body can exist, though minimally so, without what we call a mind.

I suppose it comes down to whether or not you believe that being a human being necessarily requires thought. Is a person in a permanent vegetative state no longer a human being?

I'm feeling agnostic tonight apparently.

[june 7th]

I think that there is no question that without our physical being, we would not have the capacity to function on any higher mental plane. In order to think, and to KNOW that I am "thinking" (consciousness, self-reflective consciousness) I must have a fully functioning body/brain. In that sense, I tend to think that there is a readily seen interdependence between mind and body.

As well, there has been much documented in recent years surrounding the whole notion of mind-body interaction, interdependence. Alternative medicine has well capitalized on this very notion. My physical body will most certainly influence my mind, thus effecting my mood. As well, my mental/psychic capacities influence my physical being. Healing can be either delayed or accelerated depending upon one's mind, mood, and attitude/outlook on life. Individuals who have been known to suffer from PTSD will often report "body memories" (in flashbacks) in which they are literally "re-experiencing" the original trauma in both psychological and physical ways.

And yet, there also exists the capacity for the mind to move material objects on it's own. (I am drawing a total blank as to what it is called; it is a Chinese term...???) There is something about the capacity of the mind to perform that sort of act that also has me leaning in the direction of a more dualist arguement as regards mind and body.

I have posted what is off the top of my head, however, I want to think about this a bit more...As well, I should ask:

Solidsquid: In your question, are you defining "mind" in it's literal sense, (psyche) or are you referencing mind=soul as in the metaphysical/ontological???

Thanks,
June

[mams1559]

Originally Posted by june 7th

And yet, there also exists the capacity for the mind to move material objects on it's own. (I am drawing a total blank as to what it is called; it is a Chinese term...???) There is something about the capacity of the mind to perform that sort of act that also has me leaning in the direction of a more dualist arguement as regards mind and body.

Thanks,
June

Excellent post, june. BTW, I believe the term is psychokinesis or telekinesis. Blessings

[june 7th]

Originally Posted by mams1559

BTW, I believe the term is psychokinesis or telekinesis. Blessings

Mams: Thank you so much for "jump starting" June's brain, which at the moment feels completely separate from her body as well as from most other life forms. (I really have to stop responding to these threads when it's past my bedtime!)

Telekinesis it is! (Chinese form of alternative medicinal healing: Qi Gong)

-An ever grateful and tired June

[Mark S.]

The mind and the body are as separate as water and wet. Different things? Yes. But so inherently connected that they are inseparable.

[solidsquid]

Originally Posted by june 7th

Solidsquid: In your question, are you defining "mind" in it's literal sense, (psyche) or are you referencing mind=soul as in the metaphysical/ontological???

Either, I hadn't really defined anything intentionally to give everyone a chance to posit their view of the topic and their ideas of what "mind" refers to as well.

I'm sure most people can probably guess which direction my post will head but it will have to wait until tomorrow or later as I have six hours of seminar classes to sit through tomorrow.