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09-14-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob
No.
I may not feel it is ideal, as if God intended anyone to be gay - but they are. It happens. So I don't believe God holds me accountable for having attractions I never really asked to have.
I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking me how I define being "gay"?
Yes. But it didn't work.
Have you tried to stop being straight? You can't do it, can you? You can't STOP being attracted to the opposite sex, can you? Well, it's the same thing with being gay. We can't just snap our fingers and stop being attracted to the same sex. It just doesn't work. Even if you're gay but choose to get married, on some level you are still attracted to the same sex.
I think it depends on what your church means when it says "being" gay is a sin.
I have no problems personally with myself being gay. At least not anymore. I completely accept it as who I am now. I have at times hated that part of who I am. But I've recently gotten past that. I now no longer hate that part of myself. So no, my struggle isn't with actually being gay.
My struggle has always been more involved with trying to figure out how to deal with wanting a relationship with a man while being confused about whether or not it was truly acceptable to God. And since there seem to be some conflicting opinions about that among theologians, I've simply decided to stop struggling. It's too exhausting.
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WC,
Can you explain how you " decided to stop struggling"  
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09-14-2007, 04:11 PM
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Rob it seems to me you are torturing yourself for no good reason. If you are gay, so be it. Listen to Ricky Nelson's "Garden Party".
I do thank you for baring your soul on this thread, maybe it will help some people gain understanding of their fellow man.
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09-14-2007, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder
Rob it seems to me you are torturing yourself for no good reason. If you are gay, so be it. Listen to Ricky Nelson's "Garden Party".
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LOL! You wanna hear something sad? I've always heard that song, but never knew who sang it! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder
I do thank you for baring your soul on this thread, maybe it will help some people gain understanding of their fellow man.
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One can hope, huh?  Thanks for the kind words. |
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09-14-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback
WC,
Can you explain how you " decided to stop struggling" |
Yep. I'll just repost what I told a fellow C-D member in a private message:
Imagine you're in an ocean and you're connected to a beach ball, trying to hold it under water. You can do it, but eventually you're going to be using all your energy trying to keep it underwater. You'll get more and more exhausted over time, until you just can't do it anymore. So when you get too tired and let go, the ball pops up to the surface, and you may feel some relief because you don't feel the strain of holding it down anymore. But you never really got rid of it. The beach ball never really went away. You just kept it pushed down out of sight. You can't really get rid of it, because there is no place to push it out of your way since it's tethered to you. And you don't have the strength or means by which the tether can be severed. You might call out to someone who IS able to sever it, but they don't seem to respond to your call. So all you can do is assume that the person doesn't feel the beach ball is any sort of hindrance to you. It only becomes a hindrance when you try to push it out of the way or hold it under the water.
So the only thing you can do is get on with treading water. You know the beach ball is there, but you would rather expend your energy trying to make it to the beautiful island in the distance. It seems like a much easier task to swim to that island as opposed to constantly trying to hold down something that you can't get rid of.
So the other day I had one of those moments when the beach ball came to the surface, and then I decided I'd had enough. I was fed up with this whole struggle and I wasn't going to engage it anymore. When that happened, I suddenly felt a bit of freedom to worship the Lord and pursue that distant island that was so beautiful. To HELL with wasting my energy trying to repress something that just wasn't going to go away. So I decided to give up, and stop fighting this. It takes TOO much energy and causes TOO much anger, trying to keep it held down. All you're doing when you repress something like this is you're not being yourself. You're wasting your life. The truth of your life is being suppressed, so in essence you're living a lie.
What good is there in living a lie?
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09-14-2007, 05:35 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
73 posts, read 36,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob
Yep. I'll just repost what I told a fellow C-D member in a private message:
Imagine you're in an ocean and you're connected to a beach ball, trying to hold it under water. You can do it, but eventually you're going to be using all your energy trying to keep it underwater. You'll get more and more exhausted over time, until you just can't do it anymore. So when you get too tired and let go, the ball pops up to the surface, and you may feel some relief because you don't feel the strain of holding it down anymore. But you never really got rid of it. The beach ball never really went away. You just kept it pushed down out of sight. You can't really get rid of it, because there is no place to push it out of your way since it's tethered to you. And you don't have the strength or means by which the tether can be severed. You might call out to someone who IS able to sever it, but they don't seem to respond to your call. So all you can do is assume that the person doesn't feel the beach ball is any sort of hindrance to you. It only becomes a hindrance when you try to push it out of the way or hold it under the water.
So the only thing you can do is get on with treading water. You know the beach ball is there, but you would rather expend your energy trying to make it to the beautiful island in the distance. It seems like a much easier task to swim to that island as opposed to constantly trying to hold down something that you can't get rid of.
So the other day I had one of those moments when the beach ball came to the surface, and then I decided I'd had enough. I was fed up with this whole struggle and I wasn't going to engage it anymore. When that happened, I suddenly felt a bit of freedom to worship the Lord and pursue that distant island that was so beautiful. To HELL with wasting my energy trying to repress something that just wasn't going to go away. So I decided to give up, and stop fighting this. It takes TOO much energy and causes TOO much anger, trying to keep it held down. All you're doing when you repress something like this is you're not being yourself. You're wasting your life. The truth of your life is being suppressed, so in essence you're living a lie.
What good is there in living a lie?
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perfect analogy
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09-14-2007, 05:42 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Maryland
2,665 posts, read 1,209,536 times
Reputation: 617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob
Yep. I'll just repost what I told a fellow C-D member in a private message:
Imagine you're in an ocean and you're connected to a beach ball, trying to hold it under water. You can do it, but eventually you're going to be using all your energy trying to keep it underwater. You'll get more and more exhausted over time, until you just can't do it anymore. So when you get too tired and let go, the ball pops up to the surface, and you may feel some relief because you don't feel the strain of holding it down anymore. But you never really got rid of it. The beach ball never really went away. You just kept it pushed down out of sight. You can't really get rid of it, because there is no place to push it out of your way since it's tethered to you. And you don't have the strength or means by which the tether can be severed. You might call out to someone who IS able to sever it, but they don't seem to respond to your call. So all you can do is assume that the person doesn't feel the beach ball is any sort of hindrance to you. It only becomes a hindrance when you try to push it out of the way or hold it under the water.
So the only thing you can do is get on with treading water. You know the beach ball is there, but you would rather expend your energy trying to make it to the beautiful island in the distance. It seems like a much easier task to swim to that island as opposed to constantly trying to hold down something that you can't get rid of.
So the other day I had one of those moments when the beach ball came to the surface, and then I decided I'd had enough. I was fed up with this whole struggle and I wasn't going to engage it anymore. When that happened, I suddenly felt a bit of freedom to worship the Lord and pursue that distant island that was so beautiful. To HELL with wasting my energy trying to repress something that just wasn't going to go away. So I decided to give up, and stop fighting this. It takes TOO much energy and causes TOO much anger, trying to keep it held down. All you're doing when you repress something like this is you're not being yourself. You're wasting your life. The truth of your life is being suppressed, so in essence you're living a lie.
What good is there in living a lie?
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Congratulations!! Wonderfully stated, and inspirational!
Surrender to win. It's always worked for me.
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09-14-2007, 06:13 PM
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Not a member
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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being gay/ sins/ and Chrisitanity - surrendering to Jesus
well our church and the bible say its wrong for people to have sin with the same sex. so on that defitiiton having sex with another man would mean you are both gay and sinning. So do you ask God to forgive you for being gay? ( and sinning?)
Being a Christian is totally surrendering to Jesus. Confess to Jesus you can't stop being gay on you own. No matter how hard you try you still have the urges.Confess you cant stop the urges. Surrender completely to him. Completey surrender your will to his will and Ask the Holy Spirit to take over your heart. Pray this every day and it will work. But you have to admit you can't beat it own your own. Surrender completely to HIM and let HIM LEAD and not you lead the way.
I know - is the only way I could overcome a drug addiction....
I still crave the drugs every day but I surrender to him every morning. Been 11 years since my last fix but I could on the streets again if I followed my will or urges. And i guarantte you my drug urges are stronger than your men urges. Pray. Surrender. Pray. Invite Him to drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob
No.
I may not feel it is ideal, as if God intended anyone to be gay - but they are. It happens. So I don't believe God holds me accountable for having attractions I never really asked to have.
I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking me how I define being "gay"?
Yes. But it didn't work.
Have you tried to stop being straight? You can't do it, can you? You can't STOP being attracted to the opposite sex, can you? Well, it's the same thing with being gay. We can't just snap our fingers and stop being attracted to the same sex. It just doesn't work. Even if you're gay but choose to get married, on some level you are still attracted to the same sex.
I think it depends on what your church means when it says "being" gay is a sin.
I have no problems personally with myself being gay. At least not anymore. I completely accept it as who I am now. I have at times hated that part of who I am. But I've recently gotten past that. I now no longer hate that part of myself. So no, my struggle isn't with actually being gay.
My struggle has always been more involved with trying to figure out how to deal with wanting a relationship with a man while being confused about whether or not it was truly acceptable to God. And since there seem to be some conflicting opinions about that among theologians, I've simply decided to stop struggling. It's too exhausting.
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Last edited by LeeDalton; 09-14-2007 at 06:16 PM..
Reason: mis spelling
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09-15-2007, 01:58 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
73 posts, read 36,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
well our church and the bible say its wrong for people to have sin with the same sex. so on that defitiiton having sex with another man would mean you are both gay and sinning. So do you ask God to forgive you for being gay? ( and sinning?)
Being a Christian is totally surrendering to Jesus. Confess to Jesus you can't stop being gay on you own. No matter how hard you try you still have the urges.Confess you cant stop the urges. Surrender completely to him. Completey surrender your will to his will and Ask the Holy Spirit to take over your heart. Pray this every day and it will work. But you have to admit you can't beat it own your own. Surrender completely to HIM and let HIM LEAD and not you lead the way.
I know - is the only way I could overcome a drug addiction....
I still crave the drugs every day but I surrender to him every morning. Been 11 years since my last fix but I could on the streets again if I followed my will or urges. And i guarantte you my drug urges are stronger than your men urges. Pray. Surrender. Pray. Invite Him to drive.
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I'm sorry, but I have to say that this is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read. How can you ever say to anyone "I guarantee you my drug urges are stronger than your men urges" first of all? How are your women urges? Could you become completely celibate for the rest of your entire life? You have no idea how someone else feels, try being in love and walking away from that person, when it's something that strong it hurts more than drugs--I've been in both places. I can't even imagine how much more it would hurt if I were gay, because there are people like you who are ignorant and make comments like that and make it so much harder. My [gay] best friend's aunt, when she heard he was gay, she handed him a bible and highlighted all the parts where it said that what he was doing was "sinning" and told him he was going to hell. He hasn't been able to tell anyone since, but he's still gay. Just live your own life, because who really knows what lies ahead. Be a good person and good will follow eventually.
Also, let him lead the way? According to what you believe, God gave you free will. Free will is for you to make your own dicisions and live your own life. You are not supposed to say "Jesus help me NOW" every time you're in a rut. That's weakness as a person in every way, especially spiritually.. you can call it surrendering to Jesus, but in the end it's just weakness.
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09-15-2007, 02:09 PM
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Not a member
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
well our church and the bible say its wrong for people to have sin with the same sex.
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I hear you. And I'd like to interject that there are different interpretations of those Bible verses. Some denominations and theologians don't feel that the Bible talks about loving, monogamous, committed homosexual relationships between two people of the same sex. They think the Bible is simply talking about gay sexual acts that are performed in the context of idolatry, prostitution or pedophilia.
The confusion comes in not knowing who to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
so on that defitiiton having sex with another man would mean you are both gay and sinning.
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Not quite. Being gay itself is different than engaging in gay sex. A straight man can engage in sex with another man, but that doesn't make him gay.
I don't define myself as a gay man simply because I have (or more to the point, have had) gay sex with men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
So do you ask God to forgive you for being gay? ( and sinning?)
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I have to ask: have you read this whole thread? I don't do anything sexually with other men. So in that respect, I'm not sinning.
As for asking God to forgive me for actually being gay - well, I used to. But it was more in the context of "apologizing for something I don't need to apologize for". It was me expressing disgust with myself for being this way. It was kinda like telling God I was sorry for liking chocolate, when I really can't help the fact that I like chocolate. The condition of liking chocolate in and of itself is NOT wrong. I can try to TELL myself I don't like chocolate, but that would be an utter lie. So for me to actually ask God to forgive me for being gay seems a bit pointless. I don't think He holds it against me, because I didn't actively and consciously CHOOSE to be gay. It just developed. It happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
Being a Christian is totally surrendering to Jesus. Confess to Jesus you can't stop being gay on you own.
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I've done that already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
No matter how hard you try you still have the urges.Confess you cant stop the urges.
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Been there, done that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
Surrender completely to him. Completey surrender your will to his will and Ask the Holy Spirit to take over your heart.
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I've done that, and I think it's the only way I've been able to refrain from engaging in gay sex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
Pray this every day and it will work. But you have to admit you can't beat it own your own. Surrender completely to HIM and let HIM LEAD and not you lead the way. I know - is the only way I could overcome a drug addiction....
I still crave the drugs every day but I surrender to him every morning. Been 11 years since my last fix but I could on the streets again if I followed my will or urges.
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If you haven't read the entire thread, it might interest you to know that I haven't had sex with anyone in 15 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
And i guarantte you my drug urges are stronger than your men urges.
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Some would say that's a matter of personal opinion that can only be judged by someone who has experienced both things. Have you experienced urges to have gay sex? Most likely not. Likewise, I haven't had urges to do drugs - though I WILL say I have alcoholic tendencies - particularly when it comes to hard liquor - and if I don't strive to keep them in check, I can easily fall into a pattern where I want to get drunk all the time. So I'm not TOTALLY oblivious to substance addiction. But I wouldn't presume to say that my urges are stronger or weaker than the urges someone else experiences for a different bondage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeDalton
Pray. Surrender. Pray. Invite Him to drive.
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Some days I strive for that more strongly than others. I imagine a lot of people are like that. I try to do my best to trust Him to guide me.
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09-15-2007, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob
I hear you. And I'd like to interject that there are different interpretations of those Bible verses. Some denominations and theologians don't feel that the Bible talks about loving, monogamous, committed homosexual relationships between two people of the same sex. They think the Bible is simply talking about gay sexual acts that are performed in the context of idolatry, prostitution or pedophilia.
The confusion comes in not knowing who to believe.
Not quite. Being gay itself is different than engaging in gay sex. A straight man can engage in sex with another man, but that doesn't make him gay.
I don't define myself as a gay man simply because I have (or more to the point, have had) gay sex with men.
I have to ask: have you read this whole thread? I don't do anything sexually with other men. So in that respect, I'm not sinning.
As for asking God to forgive me for actually being gay - well, I used to. But it was more in the context of "apologizing for something I don't need to apologize for". It was me expressing disgust with myself for being this way. It was kinda like telling God I was sorry for liking chocolate, when I really can't help the fact that I like chocolate. The condition of liking chocolate in and of itself is NOT wrong. I can try to TELL myself I don't like chocolate, but that would be an utter lie. So for me to actually ask God to forgive me for being gay seems a bit pointless. I don't think He holds it against me, because I didn't actively and consciously CHOOSE to be gay. It just developed. It happened.
I've done that already.
Been there, done that.
I've done that, and I think it's the only way I've been able to refrain from engaging in gay sex.
If you haven't read the entire thread, it might interest you to know that I haven't had sex with anyone in 15 years.
Some would say that's a matter of personal opinion that can only be judged by someone who has experienced both things. Have you experienced urges to have gay sex? Most likely not. Likewise, I haven't had urges to do drugs - though I WILL say I have alcoholic tendencies - particularly when it comes to hard liquor - and if I don't strive to keep them in check, I can easily fall into a pattern where I want to get drunk all the time. So I'm not TOTALLY oblivious to substance addiction. But I wouldn't presume to say that my urges are stronger or weaker than the urges someone else experiences for a different bondage.
Some days I strive for that more strongly than others. I imagine a lot of people are like that. I try to do my best to trust Him to guide me.
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good for you wcrob.. i like you and how you say things.
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