Religion will eventually become obsolete (virtual, Earth, Einstein, Noah)

[urbanlemur]

Next time someone asks you what dictates right and wrong why should the ONLY answer be "The Bible"? Shouldn't it be: "The Bible + Ghandi + Kant + Hume + Voltaire + Bacon, etc...?" I think it should, and only until that answer becomes more prevalent will religion's obscene problems become alleviated.

If one views Christ only as a good teacher, then they will more than likely put Him into the same breath as Ghandi, Kant, etc. However, if one believes that He was God in human form, the comparisons cannot be made for obvious reasons.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by urbanlemur

If one views Christ only as a good teacher, then they will mroe than likely put Him into the same breath as Ghandi, Kant, etc. However, if one believes that He was God in human form, the comparisons cannot be made for obvious reasons.

I'll be extremely fair in all of this. If one believes that Jesus was God in human form, would it not only be logical to try and follow Jesus through expanding one's own view of morality and ethics in order to be as "good" as possible?

Obviously, for those who feel Jesus was God in human form, the recognition is that they cannot be perfect as such. However, if one were to truly believe that, wouldn't it seem beneficial to take in as much about being "Christ-like" through as many methods as possible to include other ethical philosophies aside from the Bible? Is it not possible to correlate moral relevancies to modern day philosophy and, pardon my curtness, ancient ways of thinking to encompass that which is most humanly "Christ-like"? I think that's a pretty fair thing, don't you?

To be honest, from an outsider's point of view, the Christians that seem to shine Christianity in a good light also seem to be able to encompass other moral philosophies (this doesn't mean contradictory) with Biblical ones. Far be it from me to pass judgement on what a "good Christian" is but that's just my humble opinion.

[urbanlemur]

I'll be extremely fair in all of this. If one believes that Jesus was God in human form, would it not only be logical to try and follow Jesus through expanding one's own view of morality and ethics in order to be as "good" as possible.

Obviously, for those who feel Jesus was God in human form, the recognition is that they cannot be perfect as such. However, if one were to truly believe that, wouldn't it seem beneficial to take in as much about being "Christ-like" through as many methods as possible to include other ethical philosophies aside from the Bible? Is it not possible to correlate moral relevancies to modern day philosophy and, pardon my curtness, ancient ways of thinking to encompass that which is most humanly "Christ-like"? I think that's a pretty fair thing, don't you?

To be honest, from an outsider's point of view, the Christians that seem to shine Christianity in a good light also seem to be able to encompass other moral philosophies (this doesn't mean contradictory) with Biblical ones. Far be it from me to pass judgement on what a "good Christian" is but that's just my humble opinion.

The thing is that if you believe who Jesus was/is, then He set the standard for morality as a result. There are no others by which to measure because He laid it all out for us in His Word...love one another. I doesn't get any simpler than that although for us as human beings, we have, unfortunately, a lot of imperfect qualities that get in the way so we have to emulate Him as best as we can. The wonderful thing is that He accepts our failures despite them and loves us in spite of.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by urbanlemur

The thing is that if you believe who Jesus was/is, then He set the standard for morality as a result. There are no others by which to measure because He laid it all out for us in His Word...love one another. I doesn't get any simpler than that although for us as human beings, we have, unfortunately, a lot of imperfect qualities that get in the way so we have to emulate Him as best as we can. The wonderful thing is that He accepts our failures despite them and loves us in spite of.

I'm not sure what you're failing to understand about what I'm saying.... The problem seems to be that you might understand his word as meaning "Love one another" but not everyone from the Christian perspective seems to get it. Of course, naturally, everyone just writes them off as "Not True Christians". Are you seeing the paradoxical nature in what I'm saying in terms of Jesus becoming a religious ideology as a result of that?

I'm also not inferring that you should abandon your belief in God or Jesus. I'm really not. What I'm inferring is that it seems so painfully obvious to me that people try to bring forth all these different contexts as to what Jesus meant. Henceforth, followers of Jesus, or Christians, seem to be stuck in this cyclical loop of what Jesus actually said. This provides that same feedback system as to the religious paradox.

It seems to me that if someone REALLY felt he was the son of God they would have no objection to examining, studying, and taking into consideration more modern philosophies. They don't negate what Jesus said in any way at all. They don't require an abandonment of that faith, they don't require a turning away from God. What they CAN do is have the ability to perhaps broaden a perspective as to what "Love one another" really means and make the connection between two thousand years ago and today. That's all I'm saying. Broaden perspectives. Examine thoughts and theories. Put it into perspective and apply it to how you think Jesus' message comes across. It seems so obvious to me that if people examined that and approached it with that attitude there would be far less religious persecution in the world. It's not just Jesus. It's religion as an entirety. People seem so resistive to encountering the notion of possibly having to think for themselves. It simply boggles my mind.

[urbanlemur]

People seem so resistive to encountering the notion of possibly having to think for themselves. It simply boggles my mind.

Most, if not all the world's ills are as a result of thinking for themselves. There are also many wonderful things brought about too but they are far and few between comparitively.

[3~Shepherds]

[/quote=GCSTroop;2870228]OK, I'm having a hard time trying to quote you as your quotes kind of got messed up a bit. That's ok, it happens, I'm guilty of it too. Let me try and work around this...

Okay, you need to not write so much. I tried to put my answers in the box. Ah, soooo.

I'm unconvinced. I can't see how one can say Jesus is a relationship and that it should be followed as such yet not call it a religion. Ummm... that screams ideology to me which is why I pointed out that I agree on the premise that following Jesus was an ideology and henceforth a religious process prone to the same subjectivity that all religions have

Because, Religion has become a MONEY making profit from music to books about end times,be a better person, send you MONEY here send your MONEY there etc. It's no longer about Jesus in some churches it's all the glory of the high up members and all the HOOPLA!!
Take it back to Christ. I myself I'm not happy the way it's going and I feel that in the beginning of Christianity only a few had the word and what was read was what they wanted the people to hear. Which, angered some and the broke away from the bondage and it has just kept going.
Now that we can READ HIS DIVINE words OUR SELVES the message is different if you give it a chance.

The sin of the world will continue until God has had enough and it will change?!?! Well, what the heck is enough? I'm sorry to break the news to you, but 60-70 years ago 6 million Jews were brutally murdered in concentration camps. Stalin killed an estimated 30 million. The Killing Fields in Cambodia!? Malicious religious persecution in the Congo?! The Crusades?! The Spanish Inquisition?! Mao?! North Korea?! Khan? God hasn't had enough yet?! He's still not tired yet?! Regardless of whether the above were performed in the name of religion or not, you're putting evil in the context of something that you feel is an act of some demonic handiwork (Satan). Therefore, all sin, all crime, all evil acts are perpetuated under the guise that God is just biding his time as he's NOT TIRED OF IT YET?! A God like that I want no part of!

No, the act of SIN is MAN. My son came home the other day his 15 years old and he's been talking to a recruit officer and the guy asked him why he wanted to join he told them about a career choice and that he wanted to be in until 35-40. The guy was surprised that my son actually, has a plan. The officer told him most kids answer was they wanted to kill someone. This is bred into some men and for some it MUST be an instinct to kill and see torture done. So, I don't think this is Gods fault. Man seems to like war movies,boxing,dog fights,hmmm......this all has blood and violence and who are the producers of these so called entrainment MEN!!!

So, would you be happier if Armageddon were to come? I'm not and I want to see Jesus. I feel with the help and working together we can make this a better world. God is giving us a chance. This is nothing when ALL this disaster hits the US, then we will know God has had enough. America has no idea what God has blessed us with and look what we have done with it. OUR eyes are on HOLLYWOOD and MONEY and we wonder why things are happening, not in our favor.

Hmmm... I'll be very honest.. it never fails to amaze me how Christians vehemently scream that the Old Law was in the Old Testament. It was fulfilled with the birth, life and death of Christ and yet I'm quoted Old Testament (taken entirely out of context) to prove a point about Jesus' non-condemnation of slavery... That baffles me...

Since the topic of late seems to be focused on the works, life, and following of Jesus I'd rather look at what he did or didn't do in regards to slavery.

Still... the point that I was trying to make in my previous post was completely overlooked. My point was that due to Jesus' inaction in regards to slavery, I can take that as an excuse to have slaves or I can take it as an excuse to abolish it ergo Jesus should not be the sole benefactor as to whom we attribute our morality and ethics.

I would think more common sense would be the answer as not to have slaves. I really have to ask did people who took slaves really believe in God. Come on our conscience is our guide these men knew of the wrong they were doing and instead took out of context the Bible for there evil ways.
Were do you get it that Christians only follow the Bible in an example for love and compassion and rules to live by?

Still, as we know that slavery is wrong, what gives us that notion? Are we going back to Old Testament law now? Well, that's fine, but I don't want to hear anything when I bring up the fact that if we're going to make it convenient to bring up Old Testament Law as it suits us, than we should also bring up Old Testament Law to suit us in regards to stoning prostitutes.

All I can say is times were what they were back then. I think we think it was all about the Bible times, when that wasn't the only thing going on. People used it and still use it to fit there purposes and it is for the believer and non-believer to decide would God be that kind of God. What changed Saul he was killing Christians and when he realized what he was doing God made him a new man Paul. The people of the Bible are to show us even though we sin there is salvation in his Son and they are examples of how we can be or not to be. Have you never experienced a Paul experience?

My answer is there must be things I don't know and God will reveal these things just as Jesus said He would. I rather BELIEVE I serve a LOVING and UNDERSTANDING God rather then an EVIL God.

[3~Shepherds]

GCSTROOPS, you are putting Christians all in one pot. You are failing to see that some churches are CHANGING there beliefs in the way things were done.

Exactly, how do you want us to fix 2000,1000,500,200,100 years ago? You are NOT giving Christianity the benefit that it can change without changing the word. Christians have come along way from Rome.

[Marodi]

Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds

GCSTROOPS, you are putting Christians all in one pot. You are failing to see that some churches are CHANGING there beliefs in the way things were done.

Exactly, how do you want us to fix 2000,1000,500,200,100 years ago? You are NOT giving Christianity the benefit that it can change without changing the word. Christians have come along way from Rome.

Deeply religious people have always held back science, regardless of time period, because they feel that the bible is a legitimate source of scientific knowledge. At best, there are a few sections that are historically accurate, but for the most part, it's a bunch of bacteria laced wheat scribblings, and not much else.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by urbanlemur

Most, if not all the world's ills are as a result of thinking for themselves. There are also many wonderful things brought about too but they are far and few between comparitively.

I beg to differ. It seems the people who have turned into mindless followers of certain propagandistic ideologies are the ones that have caused the most problems.... Communism, Hitler's Third Reich, The Spanish Inquisition... Sure, the leader's may have been independent thinkers but it takes mindless lemmings scared of independent thought to follow them. Just a thought.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds

GCSTROOPS, you are putting Christians all in one pot. You are failing to see that some churches are CHANGING there beliefs in the way things were done.

Exactly, how do you want us to fix 2000,1000,500,200,100 years ago? You are NOT giving Christianity the benefit that it can change without changing the word. Christians have come along way from Rome.

Yes, Christians have come a long way since Rome. I agree. But was that as a result of the Bible or recognition of moral ineptitudes due to a change in the way of modern day thinking given to us by more modern philosophies? Let's face it, the Christian religion hasn't exactly been the iconic structure of non-changing principles and values. 150 years ago, you'd be hard pressed to find a church in the south that didn't think slavery was OK based on Biblical scripture.

In all seriousness though, we just had a comlete discussion on how awful religion is where we both agreed that it is absolutely awful and then I'm being told I'm shining Christianity in a negative light... Really, in all fairness, it is a bit one-sided of me to sit here and give the impression that Christianity is the only religion that does this. In fact, it seems more like every monotheistic (and polytheistic?) religion is equally as inept at keeping things under control. Forgive me for saying so, but using Jesus as an excuse to claim your belief is stronger than religion is, to me, a weak argument. It's best put in context if I were to sit here and say the same thing about Muhammad to you.