Religion will eventually become obsolete (preach, Old Testament, origin, moral)

[allah truth]

i haven't posted anything in a while, but i just seen the most freaking awsome southpark episode ever on the internet, and it reminded me of all of you so i thought i should post it. this is the perfect thread for it to as it deals with what will happen in the future when everyone is an atheist well partly lol. now i know southpark iisn't a show most of you probably watch, but whatever, watch it. or don't but yea i thought id just post it.
[SIZE=2][/SIZE][SIZE=2]http://www.southparkzone.com/episodes/1012/Go-God-Go!.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Go God Go XII - 1013 - Watch - South Park Zone
[/SIZE]

[MontanaGuy]

Marodi wrote:

Virtually everything you take advantage of in every day life was invented and created by groups of people.

When any individual is applying for a job in a very technical research group in virtually any field don't you know the employer is going to look for the best and brightest and for someone who can think independently? I would suggest to you that even though there may be a group of people working on a common goal that the contributions of individuals within the group are going to actually make those incremental steps that lead to progress. Individuals think, groups of people do not think as a single entity, the purpose of gathering a group for a common purpose is to create a supportive network in which each person performs a particular task. This does not diminish the acheivements of those individuals. This whole sidetrack got started from the statement that the world's ills were caused by people thinking for themselves which I still find to be a preposterous statement.

[3~Shepherds]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Forgive me for saying so, but using Jesus as an excuse to claim your belief is stronger than religion is, to me, a weak argument. It's best put in context if I were to sit here and say the same thing about Muhammad to you.

There is two ways you can look at Jesus Relationship or Religion. I bet you walked away from RELIGION, if you have ever believed. I guess it's just another way to look at Jesus and consider if I'm tried of Religion I'm I really tried of Jesus. I have questioned MANY things in the Christian world and believe me if I could change some things I would. The Bible has been misused, this was not Gods work. Money and power has as much a part to play in all the dirty deeds.

As I see it some do follow Muhammad, more then the religion since the Islam faith says,"Muhammad preaches peace and love" look what some are doing in the name of RELIGION.

There is a difference, if you weren't so strong on proving me wrong!!

[urbanlemur]

This whole sidetrack got started from the statement that the world's ills were caused by people thinking for themselves which I still find to be a preposterous statement.

Then to what do you attribute the ills of this world? Since we are all "thinkers" in your estimation, what exactly does cause people to murder, commit genocide, perpetrate heinous acts against others, including children and act in ways detrimental to the advancement of society?

And for the third time, go back and read the comment that I did make that there are good things that have come from thinking or did you ignore that part of my statement for a reason?

BTW, I consider the notion of people believing that man is superior to God is preposterous myself but I don't hold it against others because of it.

[MontanaGuy]

urbanlemur wrote:

Then to what do you attribute the ills of this world? Since we are all "thinkers" in your estimation, what exactly does cause people to murder, commit genocide, perpetrate heinous acts against others, including children and act in ways detrimental to the advancement of society?

And for the third time, go back and read the comment that I did make that there are good things that have come from thinking or did you ignore that part of my statement for a reason?

BTW, I consider the notion of people believing that man is superior to God is preposterous myself but I don't belittle others because of it.

My remarks might have sounded a little overly harsh but I attribute the ills of the world to the nature of human beings. I happen to think that most people are generally well intentioned and mean well but just a small percentage of the population is responsible for all of our crimes against people and property according to police reports. A child molester is likely to commit multiple acts against children just like a burglar or any other criminal will probably continue their antisocial behavior for much of their lives. I blame the individuals themselves, afterall they're the ones who choose to act out their aggressive desires. As far as God is concerned I don't believe there is a God so the question of feeling superior to something that isn't real in the first place doesn't make alot of sense to me. And to be fair, you did make some good points in your posts like you usually do, that one sentence just grabbed my attention and I probably gave it more attention than I should have.

[urbanlemur]

Fair enough Although we do not see eye to eye on some topics, we are blessed to have a board where we can share our thoughts and not worry about it getting out of hand. I have seen those on other sites and it can get pretty rough. I do appreciate your views and hopefully can learn something from them and others as well.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds

There is two ways you can look at Jesus Relationship or Religion. I bet you walked away from RELIGION, if you have ever believed. I guess it's just another way to look at Jesus and consider if I'm tried of Religion I'm I really tried of Jesus. I have questioned MANY things in the Christian world and believe me if I could change some things I would. The Bible has been misused, this was not Gods work. Money and power has as much a part to play in all the dirty deeds.

As I see it some do follow Muhammad, more then the religion since the Islam faith says,"Muhammad preaches peace and love" look what some are doing in the name of RELIGION.

There is a difference, if you weren't so strong on proving me wrong!!

What you're failing to recognize is that I don't consider Jesus to be anything more than a mere mortal man. Was there a time where I believed he was a savior of all sins??? No... but I was close at one point (I'd say around 15???). Did I believe in God at one point? Yeah, but I always questioned it.

I think what you're failing to recognize is that I don't think Jesus was anything more than a mere mortal man. I didn't walk away from religion, I walked away from a belief that there is a higher power who watches over us day in and day out, cares what we do to ourselves, each other, and how we feel about him. I walked away from a belief that says I have to attribute my sanctity as a good individual because a guy was nailed to a cross all to prove how much he loved me (in God's name). I find the idea of a deity to be, quite honestly, absurd, unfounded, and illogical.

Here's where we're different (I assume). We can both sit here and talk until we're blue in the face about how Jesus was a good guy. You think so, I think so, and I'd be hard pressed to find someone who didn't. Now, whether Jesus was a fictional character in a book or really the son of some sort of deistic enterprise, people COULD learn a lot from his stories. What separates us is that I don't feel he was the son of god as I don't believe god exists. Therefore, Jesus, by default, was either a made up story (and what a fantastic one at that) or he was an ordinary man who was a very powerful influential leader. As a result of that, I do not limit myself to ONLY what Jesus said. I find it to be a good way of thinking but I don't think EVERYTHING can be applied to modern day morals, ethics, and philosophies. Thus the reason I brought up slavery.

Regardless, I feel that even if I felt as if Jesus WAS the son of god, it'd be my responsibility to look into as many ethical, philosophical, and moral debates/thoughts/ideas as possible so as to better connect on that level. It seems to me that if someone REALLY and TRULY believes that Jesus was a savior and God is real, then they would not hesitate to learn as much about themselves and the world's philosophies. To say "I follow Jesus, only Jesus, and I close myself off from the rest of the world" implies to me that Jesus did not want man to have free will or free thought in the first place. It implies to me that people feel we SHOULD be mindless lemmings with no free thought or free will.

As a result, I dare ask, if you truly believe that this is a philosophy that should be taken as sincere, how then is independent thought and conjecture labelled as unwarranted? How does that make us free willed creatures WITH free thought? I say it doesn't. I say it only promotes closed-mindedness, encourages love and peace, but also allows the door to remain wide open to inciteful bigotry and hostility. Hitler had independent thought. He was a motivating and capturing speaker. He didn't come to power because he started a revolution. He came to power because people scared to think for themselves did all the work for him. All leaders, good and bad, have all come to power because the mindless, thoughtless, lemmings they persuaded had no matter for recourse in thinking independently. Do I want to be a part of that in what I see as a belief in Jesus and/or Christianity and/or god in general (regardless of deity)?? No, I don't.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

To say "I follow Jesus, only Jesus, and I close myself off from the rest of the world" implies to me that Jesus did not want man to have free will or free thought in the first place.

The problem here is that Jesus is a reformer and not a fundamentalist. The fact that Jesus interpreted the Torah in such a 'new' or unorthodox perspective caused many fundamentalist Jews to consider Jesus a threat to Judaism.
It is my opinion that Ghandi was killed by his own people (the Hindu) for the exact same reason that Jesus was crucified; both men wanted to change centuries old traditions, thus they were a threat to the establishment (=status quo).

[3~Shepherds]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

I think what you're failing to recognize is that I don't think Jesus was anything more than a mere mortal man. I didn't walk away from religion, I walked away from a belief that there is a higher power who watches over us day in and day out, cares what we do to ourselves, each other, and how we feel about him. I walked away from a belief that says I have to attribute my sanctity as a good individual because a guy was nailed to a cross all to prove how much he loved me (in God's name). I find the idea of a deity to be, quite honestly, absurd, unfounded, and illogical.

Actually, I see were your coming from. I guess during our conversation I thought you were in your 30's and much to my surprise you are in your early 20's. So from 15-23 you have decided in your long lived life there is No God.
I am not going to go any further in asking you questions. I have learned a lot from our conversation and I THANK YOU.

I have a son not far from your age and I see the same opinion coming from his friends and all I can do is hope his protected from the same conclusion you have come too. With this so hard pressed and raising denial of God among the youth, my son will have a tougher road then I did.
Just so you know I have not always been a Christian. I decided at 16 that I would no longer attend my parents church. I figured I had a 50/50 chance of getting to Heaven. I met Christians and for the most part thought they were a little out there. I actually didn't want to be one. Long story and many experiences that led me there.

I have always felt there was a God and at the age of 33 I found a more positive approach to Christianity. God has led me down a very bumpy and blazing path to His Grace. But until I was open and accepting He never knocked, now His knocking ALL the time.

Here's where we're different (I assume). We can both sit here and talk until we're blue in the face about how Jesus was a good guy. You think so, I think so, and I'd be hard pressed to find someone who didn't. To say "I follow Jesus, only Jesus, and I close myself off from the rest of the world" implies to me that Jesus did not want man to have free will or free thought in the first place. It implies to me that people feel we SHOULD be mindless lemmings with no free thought or free will.

I am just not sure how you get this opinion that we follow only Jesus. I follow his teachings and guidance about His Father, unless your saying we don't also follow Gandi or Muhammad. .

I have to say SOME Christians are not following Gods word, so not sure were this is coming from. That's why I asked what kind of Christians you have been exposed too? You don't seem to be open to different kinds of Christians you have a very narrow opinion about them.

Just because people carry the label they are known by there fruits and SOME of todays Christians are riding the fence and are being exposed more and more for there unproductive fruit.
What I find most surprising is your generation seems to be more of the ones who are discrediting the existence of God.

Back to the original posters question, Christianity just could become obsolete in the next 50 years, with the fast growing younger generation who believes it's all about them, with no one to answer to later, there is no grounding. Even though I wasn't worried to much about Gods punishment,I always knew I would be JUDGED one day for my actions and this has kept me from just thinking of my own needs.

Following Jesus doesn't mean I can't think for myself, I just happen to put my self out there were the common people are. Were the drug addicts are, were the old men drink beer, among teenagers, biker rallies. Some of the best conversations come from a good cold beer!
It's not like I go around wearing Jesus on my sleeve, I'm there so they can see it's not just the educated and best dressed that have Jesus we ALL can. Thanks for your responses and I'm sure we will have more conversations about RELIGION!!

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds

So from 15-23 you have decided in your long lived life there is No God.

Kind of a sarcastic remark don't you think?

I wouldn’t care if Troop was a five year old. He has shown he is a logical intelligent kind person.
Anyway, he lasted longer than I did with my belief in God.
When I was seven and eight years old I remember praying many times for help to change the situation I was in. It did not change. When I was nine I started asking for a sign that there was a God. I got none. I stopped believing in God when I was ten years old.
I’ll be 59 this year and am still an atheist.

Peace,
Aeroman