Christianity Forum vs. Religion & Philosphy Forum (bible, Biblical, believers)

[ontheroad]

It makes perfect sense to me, Alpha8207.

I started writing a response, and then decided to sit on it, but here is the beginning of my thinking and thoughts:

Perhaps, to some extent, we can air out some of our differences, and attempt a reconciliation within the general membership.

I strongly advocated the separation of Politics (and other controversies) and Religion, and think that separation has proven to be both beneficial and healthy for the two. I also remember, but with less vividness the vote to separate Christianity from Religion, and like GCSTroop and Alpha8207 I voted against making this distinction.

More than 75% of the members who post in either forum are Christian or raised as Christians, and it seems redundant and divisive to have separated mainstream religious discussion, and the philosophies from Christianity as a whole.

Surely, a group like ours, in a country steeped in Christian values, does not need to isolate and segregate itself by an invisible but penetrating wall of differences but might rather consider the blessings of unity.

The division of the two forums foments rather than embraces our positive differences, and often creates more harm than good by not acknowledging our similarities.

Disrespect on both sides of the fence appears to often escalate to the point where anger is substituted for common sense and good manners.

I hope we can see some positive change(s).

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by ontheroad

It makes perfect sense to me, Alpha8207.

I started writing a response, and then decided to sit on it, but here is the beginning of my thinking and thoughts:

Perhaps, to some extent, we can air out some of our differences, and attempt a reconciliation within the general membership.

I strongly advocated the separation of Politics (and other controversies) and Religion, and think that separation has proven to be both beneficial and healthy for the two. I also remember, but with less vividness the vote to separate Christianity from Religion, and like GCSTroop and Alpha8207 I voted against making this distinction.

More than 75% of the members who post in either forum are Christian or raised as Christians, and it seems redundant and divisive to have separated mainstream religious discussion, and the philosophies from Christianity as a whole.

Surely, a group like ours, in a country steeped in Christian values, does not need to isolate and segregate itself by an invisible but penetrating wall of differences but might rather consider the blessings of unity.

The division of the two forums foments rather than embraces our positive differences, and often creates more harm than good by not acknowledging our similarities.

Disrespect on both sides of the fence appears to often escalate to the point where anger is substituted for common sense and good manners.

I hope we can see some positive change(s).

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to ontheroad again!"

Blast that message!!!


I do want to interject something here though that I know at least gizmo980 has brought up, and I do think it's been a beneficial thing to the subforum.

Previous to the subforum, if a thread asks a question like "Is killing someone in the military murder?" and a person says "Yes" or "No" based on a Christian perspective...it was very common to get a response of "You do realize Christianity isn't the only religion, right?"

In other words, people got a bit burnt out that every thread received a Christian perspective. So at least in the sub-forum, they expect it.

I know it came up a lot regarding Christmas threads and others too.

I don't know why, but I do remember gizmo commenting and I thought they were valid comments.

[Miss Blue]

I was sorry I voted yes to the Christian forum almost from day one..I wish I had thought it through.. I have quit calling myself a christian, because I don't meet some of the "rules" to be a christian , therefore I have no right to be in the Christianity forum either..But I do believe this is a great big problem with Christianity as a whole... "pride".. which creates isolation and separation as I think Otr said.. This keeps the outsiders who may or may not be truly seeking answers from coming inside..It won't be settled here until we realize that this is not a church full of people of like minds preaching on like minded doctrines..I am not here to "save" Troop, June, Mg or any of my other athiest, Universal, Buddha, or Native Americans friends. I just enjoy the fellowship of many different people, and enjoy and try to learn something from their opinions..

[Marks]

I think to two are fine. The one should be able to go and talk with others of like mind, the other for general mixture discussion what's wrong with that? I voted for the Christianity section from day one and glad I did. However, it did not turn out like I had hoped but...

[little_thirsty]

I am with you Blue. I voted yes and wish I hadn't also!

[hutch5]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Well, when we all first voted on whether or not to have a Christianity forum I voted "No" and my reasoning was that I enjoyed the discussion amongst everyone and I felt that it would turn into a "Christians only post on the Christianity forum; all others would post on the R&P forum."

I'm happy to say that that has not happened, and I'm glad that many of the Christians come over to "this side" to post their thoughts as well. In all, I realize that with the sheer amount of "Christianity Posts" that the R&P forum would have, it'd be hard to keep track of just about anything. So I think, in the end, it was a good idea.

Now... with all of that being said... I dropped by the Christianity forum tonight, as is a bit unusual of me to do, and attempted to start what I thought was a rather cordial, open, and honest conversation. I'll be quite honest, that I never thought that that "side" of this forum could be so pervertedly bigoted. Granted, most people carried the conversation on rather well and were equally as reciprocative. However, I think it was also the first time I have ever truly been offended by posting on City Data, whether this forum or another. To be quite honest, it was a very good reminder of exactly why I think religion can be such a dangerous thing and exactly why I turned away from Christianity and anything to do with religion or god in the first place. It seems that perhaps there is a "force" behind religion. This "force" seemingly has the power to turn otherwise intelligent, loving, thoughtful people into bigoted, biased, uncaring people who isolate themselves from all others "unlike" them in order to find solace and self-comfort in their own misery. That force is not Satan, the devil, or anything "spiritual", it just seems it is a product of immaturity and ignorance.

I think I am rapidly changing my stance based on what I saw on the Christianity forum tonight. Apparently, we haven't come a very long way as a society as to how we view one another and are willing to accept one another for our differences. I suppose that that is partly my fault for being blind to the fact that there are still people out there who revel in not only trying to persuade you to join their religion, but do not hesitate to insult you, embarass you, or belittle you in order to make you convert. I do say, not in politics, not in business, not in any other form of what we might call "competition" have I ever seen such a thing so vile, wicked, and repulsive as religion and right now, it seems, Christianity is at the forethought of my mind.

That's my opinion.

Regards,

GCSTroop

I see what you mean and I agree with you even though I come from a Christian position. I think that in general in the R&P forum there is more willingness to listen to and to see other people's point of view without reactincing in the aggressive manner that occasionally I have experienced in the Christian forum.
I will still look and read through the threads of both forums because sometimes there are some intereasting posts but I will definetely spend less time on the Christian one.

[june 7th]

Originally Posted by ontheroad

Perhaps, to some extent, we can air out some of our differences, and attempt a reconciliation within the general membership.

I strongly advocated the separation of Politics (and other controversies) and Religion, and think that separation has proven to be both beneficial and healthy for the two. I also remember, but with less vividness the vote to separate Christianity from Religion, and like GCSTroop and Alpha8207 I voted against making this distinction.

More than 75% of the members who post in either forum are Christian or raised as Christians, and it seems redundant and divisive to have separated mainstream religious discussion, and the philosophies from Christianity as a whole.

Surely, a group like ours, in a country steeped in Christian values, does not need to isolate and segregate itself by an invisible but penetrating wall of differences but might rather consider the blessings of unity.

The division of the two forums foments rather than embraces our positive differences, and often creates more harm than good by not acknowledging our similarities.

Disrespect on both sides of the fence appears to often escalate to the point where anger is substituted for common sense and good manners.

I hope we can see some positive change(s).

Yes, yes, and more yes!!!

And many thanks, otr!

Take gentle care,
-June (Who originally voted against it.)

[crystal-sea]

[scratching my head and looking around]....


aaah, so where am I?.....[trimbling lip]....s s s s so the christian only forum is gone?

[Blueberry]

I didn't vote in the poll, yea or nay for the Christianity sub-forum, because I figured it would morph into what it is today and I expected posters would overlook whatever rules were in place.

Ontheroad has some good thoughts about the perception of divisiveness that the sub-forum creates. However, when there was only the main forum, it was not uncommon to see negative comments about Christians giving their perspective. It also wasn't uncommon to see non-Christians "invade" a thread that specifically requested only a Christian perspective or politely asked for a cease-fire. All of a sudden, a perfectly lovely or lighthearted thread would turn ugly. Furthermore, other posters were irritated that Christians would sometimes quote the Bible to help explain their stance. Other CD members chose not to participate at all because of the hostility in the forum; they wouldn't even participate in the "nice" threads because of the great chance of being flamed.

Many of the Christians felt they were between a rock and a hard place--damned if they do and damned if they don't. It was apparent that some Christians and non-Christians would never be satisfied to co-exist peacefully. Since approximately 75% of the posters on the forum claim Christianity, the question then became, "Why aren't Christians allowed to freely express their opinions?" It was my impression that the sub-forum was created to alleviate some of those tensions.

However, the "Christian" part of the sub-forum never quite jelled. There was confusion about acceptable discussion topics. Who would be considered Christian? Should debate be allowed? It didn't take long for challenges to Christianity to arise, and some "flavors" of Christianity seemed to want to inject their own theology into every discussion no matter how appropriate. Furthermore, now that a sub-forum existed, there were negative comments on the main forum about Christians "invading" it.

I'm not sure what the answer to these challenges is. I doubt there is one. However, I agree with what others have stated. It would sure be nice if we could behave as civil adults and treat each other with respect. (This doesn't mean we have to respect opinions that are abhorrent to us, just that we conduct ourselves with civil discourse.) If we want a true exchange of ideas (as most claim), then we need to be willing to hear ideas opposed to our own. It's pretty hard to engage in a discussion if some participants aren't listening.

[Marks]

Originally Posted by crystal-sea

[scratching my head and looking around]....


aaah, so where am I?.....[trimbling lip]....s s s s so the christian only forum is gone?

Crystal-sea, the "Christian-only" sub forum was never created it became just the "Christianity" sub forum.