are UFOs and extraterestrials real? (Mary, pastor, society, America)

[northsider]

Originally Posted by anifani821

There have been pictures by reliable sources, including police officers, and with many witnesses.

I'm talking about high resolution, detailed images like those in the post you're responding to.

[gsoboi]

Originally Posted by anifani821

There have been pictures by reliable sources, including police officers, and with many witnesses.

And the skeptics want to ignore this. They ignore that fact that many government officials, NASA officials, ect have said these things are real. They cant make sense of it so they ignore it. Instead they want to focus on hoaxes. Instead of finding evidence to proof UFOs are real they try to find evidence that they are not real. These people are called debunkers. Its not their fault though. They've been brainwashed into thinking all this stuff is fantasy, science fiction and someones imagination. Thats ok im sure people who live in the Amazon who were not expose to modern technology would laugh at someone if they told them man had gone to the moon or that we have communication devices that allow us to talk to people on the opposite side of the globe. Of course that would seem like science fiction fantssy to them.

[northsider]

Originally Posted by gsoboi

And the skeptics want to ignore this.

No we want proof. But not of the hoax variety that you post.

They've been brainwashed into thinking all this stuff is fantasy, science fiction and someones imagination.

As in the case of your hoaxed photographs?

[travelmate38]

If you read my story, you know my stance on it. I'm 110% certain they are real and they are here, right now. You all can laugh all you want, but if you really sincerely take the time to read the evidence you will see it is true. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people involved in this now. Government officials, airline pilots, little old grandmas describing abductions, abductions caught on tape, Roswell, deathbed confession of Roswell military officials, NASA astronauts, police officers, pastors, priests, entire cities seeing UFOs, Catholic church agreeing other life in the universe is likely and should be accepted, ex-high security clearance military officials telling all, over and over. The list goes on for miles and miles.

We came from them, no question about it, as you will son find out. Very soon in fact. Life did not happen here by accident. My only question, is what is our purpose or role in all this? Why are we here, where will it lead and how will it end?

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by northsider

No we want proof. But not of the hoax variety that you post.



As in the case of your hoaxed photographs?

These days, with products like Photoshop, anyone can doctor a photo. A photo would not convince me and I am surprised that it would, you.

It is harder to brainwash masses of people of all professions and intelligence in different locations who don't even know of each others existence.
There have been times, I am sure, when both churches and governments would have liked to have been able to pull that off.

It is the testimonies first that captured my attention, some from people I know whose sanity I am assured of. Then, after many years, I had my own experience. So I am not prone, after that, to question the experiences of others. Some may seem strange to me, but I am sure mine would to them as well.

There are many things, including other beings, in this universe that we, commonly, just have no explanation for. But our lack of understanding and explanation do not erase their existence.

Believe me, it is enticing to just want to retreat back into that comfy-cosy little civilized world that we've created for ourselves on this planet. It is unsettling to know that there are those who are more powerful than us and more technologically advanced and we have the suspicion that they may not bode a good future for us.

Yes, rumors run wild, and sure, there are members of the public who will speculate wildly and certainly, that creates a lot, really a lot, of static around an issue. But how can I be so harsh to discredit what others claim to have seen and experienced when I have, also, witnessed unusual things?

So, the critics, in my estimation, are those who are members of a rapidly dwindling group that have never witnessed such things or they may just be disinformation characters whose aim it is to cloud the issue further for the rest of us.

I did not come here to be convinced of anything, but to hear of what others have witnessed.

If you've not had experiences yourself, it is only logical that you would have more of a problem with this material than some of the rest of us. Perhaps your strong objections to the material presented here are because you feel pressured to believe in such things. You needn't bother. There is no pressure here.

We all have noted how you feel. That does not change the opinions of the rest of us.

[coosjoaquin]

Originally Posted by gsoboi

No one here has posted hoax photos to purposely decieve anyone.

When you stated:

whether photos are a hoax or real, that doesnt matter. Extraterrestrials are as REAL as you and I.

You showed that you do not bother to check the validity of the pictures. You are either tricking us or just being floppy which doesn't put you in a good position either way.

[coosjoaquin]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

These days, with products like Photoshop, anyone can doctor a photo. A photo would not convince me and I am surprised that it would, you.

It is harder to brainwash masses of people of all professions and intelligence in different locations who don't even know of each others existence.
There have been times, I am sure, when both churches and governments would have liked to have been able to pull that off.

It is the testimonies first that captured my attention, some from people I know whose sanity I am assured of. Then, after many years, I had my own experience. So I am not prone, after that, to question the experiences of others. Some may seem strange to me, but I am sure mine would to them as well.

There are many things, including other beings, in this universe that we, commonly, just have no explanation for. But our lack of understanding and explanation do not erase their existence.

Believe me, it is enticing to just want to retreat back into that comfy-cosy little civilized world that we've created for ourselves on this planet. It is unsettling to know that there are those who are more powerful than us and more technologically advanced and we have the suspicion that they may not bode a good future for us.

Yes, rumors run wild, and sure, there are members of the public who will speculate wildly and certainly, that creates a lot, really a lot, of static around an issue. But how can I be so harsh to discredit what others claim to have seen and experienced when I have, also, witnessed unusual things?

So, the critics, in my estimation, are those who are members of a rapidly dwindling group that have never witnessed such things or they may just be disinformation characters whose aim it is to cloud the issue further for the rest of us.

I did not come here to be convinced of anything, but to hear of what others have witnessed.

If you've not had experiences yourself, it is only logical that you would have more of a problem with this material than some of the rest of us. Perhaps your strong objections to the material presented here are because you feel pressured to believe in such things. You needn't bother. There is no pressure here.

We all have noted how you feel. That does not change the opinions of the rest of us.

No pressure here, if I don't believe in something I always say why. Even the believer knows that 99.999% of the pictures of UFO's that are out there are hoaxes, I think they should feel the need to sort through them.

[northsider]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

These days, with products like Photoshop, anyone can doctor a photo. A photo would not convince me and I am surprised that it would, you.

You seem to be missing my point. The photoshopped imges did not fool me. I just wonder why a poster keeps on uploading them, as well as the silly You Tube links to this discussion.

Doing that weakens the whole discussion and one must wonder at the motives of the poster.

It is harder to brainwash masses of people of all professions and intelligence in different locations who don't even know of each others existence.
There have been times, I am sure, when both churches and governments would have liked to have been able to pull that off.

Churches and governments do that all the time.

It is the testimonies first that captured my attention, some from people I know whose sanity I am assured of.

I too follow up the testimonies of people who claim to have seen 'alien craft' and even to have been taken onboard. I'm a member of an organisation that investigates these claims. So far none have even come close to being proved.

Then, after many years, I had my own experience.

Do tell.

There are many things, including other beings, in this universe

And you can say this with authority? Please share how you came about such knowledge.

we have the suspicion that they may not bode a good future for us.

Without any basis or evidence for a statement like that it brings us into the realm of make believe and self delusion

Yes, rumors run wild, and sure, there are members of the public who will speculate wildly and certainly, that creates a lot, really a lot, of static around an issue.

That's human nature at work.

But how can I be so harsh to discredit what others claim to have seen and experienced when I have, also, witnessed unusual things?

A lot of people have experienced 'unusual things'. But on proper investigation an explanation is found and explained. Some accept. Others, who see the counter evidence for their own eyes and intelligence refuse to accept. I have met in person people who seem to actually want to be deluded, some who actually revel in it.

So, the critics, in my estimation, are those who are members of a rapidly dwindling group that have never witnessed such things or they may just be disinformation characters whose aim it is to cloud the issue further for the rest of us.

Or they might, like me, be people who have experienced something and are seekers of truth. But a dwindling group? Hardly. The organisation of which I'm a member has a healthily growing membership made up of people, in the main, who have been shown the full picture and not bits of a jigsaw. Some have even been 'taken in' by people like our poster who uploads the false photos to this thread.

I did not come here to be convinced of anything, but to hear of what others have witnessed.

Likewise.

If you've not had experiences yourself, it is only logical that you would have more of a problem with this material than some of the rest of us.

Aren't you being presumptuous?

Perhaps your strong objections to the material presented here are because you feel pressured to believe in such things. You needn't bother. There is no pressure here.

Please do not patronise. I could upload pictures to this thread that would make people pause and wonder. I'm talking in particular about pictures I have taken myself, using an excellent camera. Not pictures that have been photoshopped or altered in any way. But the 'phenomena' that's apparent in the photos can easily be explained.

As I said earlier, doesn't it make one wonder that in this day and age where the smallest craters on the moon can be photographed from Earth, no one has managed to photograph a detailed picture of the 'craft' they claim to have seen and photographed?

We all have noted how you feel.

You have all? How many do you speak for?

That does not change the opinions of the rest of us.

The rest of us? Who are "us" please?

So should I withdraw from this thread and leave it to those who post false, hoaxed and in other ways altered photographs?

I thought this was an open discussion. Am I wrong?

[goldengrain]

North,

Any picture can be Photoshopped these days. Pictures can be doctored in such a way that those you believe to be genunine are not. You can get down to the very pixels and manipulate. You can always choose to disbelieve any picture.

And, we certainly can mistrust anyone's direct and personal experiences.

So, you are perfectly entitled to your opinions, and I am to mine.
I know you cannot convince me to disbelieve my own experience,
and my personal experience will serve no purpose in convincing you of my truth.

Unless you knew me well, how could I expect you to believe my experiences? I could not, so why would I wish to relate them to you?

Do I care if you would believe me? Do I want to convince you to believe me? No, to both.

Such discourse between us can only be non-productive.

I do think you are having fun at the expense of most of those here and just wasting time.
It may give you some ego satisfaction, but you will make few converts, because this seems to be an issue like abortion, either you are on one side or the other. There are fewer and fewer people sitting in the middle.

[northsider]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

North,
Any picture can be Photoshopped these days. Pictures can be doctored in such a way that those you believe to be genunine are not.

If you read my bona fides in my post above you'd see that I already know that and am involved in an organisation that has pictures scientifically examined.

So, you are perfectly entitled to your opinions, and I am to mine.

Naturally. Should go without saying.

I know you cannot convince me to disbelieve my own experience,

Where did you get the idea that I want you to disbelieve whatever experience you refer to?

Unless you knew me well, how could I expect you to believe my experiences?

I wouln't take it at face value. But I can say with as much certainty as it's possible to, without knowing your story, that it has an explanation.

I could not, so why would I wish to relate them to you?

Fine.

Do I care if you would believe me? Do I want to convince you to believe me? No, to both.

Okay.

Such discourse between us can only be non-productive.

Fair enough. I'll cease after this one if you like.

I do think you are having fun at the expense of most of those here and just wasting time.
It may give you some ego satisfaction, but you will make few converts, because this seems to be an issue like abortion, either you are on one side or the other. There are fewer and fewer people sitting in the middle.

Know something? From that quote I don't think you read my earlier post, or all of it anyway.

Or else you're one of the people I mentioned who seem to get some satisfaction from being deluded.

If you had read all of my post you'd see that I am in fact an investigator.

And I approach each report with an open mind.