respect my views ? (hell, America, church, atheist)

[ahteist2]

We are told often that we are to respect the views and opinions of others, even when they are crazy and especially when it comes to faith. Which is amazing to me, that faith is even held a value at all.

1. Christians want us to respect their views, or do they want us to ADOPT their views? For example christians are doing all they can to STOP any form of gay marriage, but why?

Or perhaps no beer on sunday, or what ever other law you can mustard up that restricts, limits or prohibits any behavior based on religious values.

Now, if they say "respect" out beliefs, let us believe what we want, do not try to change us, and all that stuff. Then why cant the afford the curtiousy and keep their morals and values out of our faces and off our law books ?

Let the gays get married if they want to, after all I am sure no gays are trying to make christians be in gay marriages.

2. If I am to respect their beliefs, then should I also be able to walk down the street, answer my door or turn on my TV with out some nut job trying to convert me to the newest fade church down the block. Or being screamed at that I am going to hell ?

3. Or, being told what I believe. Christians are always saying not to generalize them. Not to tell them what they believe, yet that is what they do with atheist all the time. And are NEVER correct in their assumptions.

So, if we are to respect them and their beliefs, why dont they do likewise.

This is one of the reasons I see religious people as hypocrites and no I do not respect their beliefs, only their right to have them.

[arguy1973]

but i thought morals and values, or what ive been hearing are not just a Christian thing.

[findinghope]

no morals and values are not religious, although religions do try to uphold morals and values--not too many of them are doing such a great job, but i digress...
yes you can have morals and values, respect and manners without ever thinking of religion or God.
i think its gret people believe what they want, but i get frustrated that they cant let just a crack of light in and just admit that their way may not be the only way.

[Wendell Phillips]

He is a proponent of that reactionary movement that lauds itself as the "moral majority", for he considers himself to be a person of high moral character and standards; he is, above all, a man of principle. He professes to be deeply religious, but he would be pressed to expound in depth on the articles of his faith; suffice it to say that he believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible - whatever that means. "I got no truck with that modern mo’rality," he says self-righteously. But he has no qualms about mixing his "old-time" religion with present-day politics. He believes, he says, in freedom of religion - so long as it’s the right religion. "It’s got ‘In God We Trust’ right there on the dollar," he says, to prove his point.

His cardinal virtues are arrogance, bigotry and uncompromising stubbornness. He knows what’s right is right; and no one dare tell him it’s not. "The law’s the law!" he says, pounding his fist for emphasis. (As for his own run-ins with the law, it was all just a mistake that the lawyers settled.) Besides this, he is ill-tempered and intolerant of others. He gives short-shrift in his judgments, and he has no patience for any exceptions to the rule.

He is a staunch advocate for educational reform. He demands that "Creationism" be taught in the public schools - none of that "evil-lution" monkey business for him! - and that the Bible be used as the text for biology class. "That’ll learn’em," he says dogmatically. He is a firm believer in family values, although he himself was just recently divorced for the second time. (This is a sore subject with him.) And he is absolutely against abortion; there can be no excuse for abortion - not under any circumstances. (Curiously, he has a great number of excuses for why he has not paid his child support; but that is another matter.)

He has many other qualities too numerous to mention, but when all is said and done, he believes - honest to God - that he is a good person, and that Jesus loves him. Needs must it be so - for Christ’s sake! - for no one else does.

[Nikk]

Marriage is a God institution. It is the bringing together of two people of the opposite sex to form a relationship before God. The question is not why do Christians want to not allow gay people to be married, but rather why do gay people want to be married. The answer is that gay couples want to be validated by God and the Church that what they are doing is OK. It is not. Homosexual activity is adultry and the bible is clear when it says "Thou shalt not commit adultry." This includes anyone having sex outside of marriage, anyone having sex with a minor, because they are not allowed to marry, anyone having sex with someone of the same sex or with the dead or with animals.

Christian have every right to tell you about their religion, just as much as you tell yours. Any sales man can sell their product to anyone they want. This society allows for freedom of speech. It is part of America, just learn to love it.

[NC~Mom]

Originally Posted by Nikk

Marriage is a God institution. It is the bringing together of two people of the opposite sex to form a relationship before God. The question is not why do Christians want to not allow gay people to be married, but rather why do gay people want to be married. The answer is that gay couples want to be validated by God and the Church that what they are doing is OK. It is not. Homosexual activity is adultry and the bible is clear when it says "Thou shalt not commit adultry." This includes anyone having sex outside of marriage, anyone having sex with a minor, because they are not allowed to marry, anyone having sex with someone of the same sex or with the dead or with animals.

Christian have every right to tell you about their religion, just as much as you tell yours. Any sales man can sell their product to anyone they want. This society allows for freedom of speech. It is part of America, just learn to love it.

I doubt that is true for most gay couples...they would like the same rights as hetero couples regarding financial decisions...etc.

Wow...comparing a gay relationship with having sex with dead people or animals? Just...wow.

I'm proud to be an Atheist with morals...and I don't discriminate against people because of their color, race, or sexual preference.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips

He is a proponent of that reactionary movement that lauds itself as the "moral majority", for he considers himself to be a person of high moral character and standards; he is, above all, a man of principle. He professes to be deeply religious, but he would be pressed to expound in depth on the articles of his faith; suffice it to say that he believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible - whatever that means. "I got no truck with that modern mo’rality," he says self-righteously. But he has no qualms about mixing his "old-time" religion with present-day politics. He believes, he says, in freedom of religion - so long as it’s the right religion. "It’s got ‘In God We Trust’ right there on the dollar," he says, to prove his point.

His cardinal virtues are arrogance, bigotry and uncompromising stubbornness. He knows what’s right is right; and no one dare tell him it’s not. "The law’s the law!" he says, pounding his fist for emphasis. (As for his own run-ins with the law, it was all just a mistake that the lawyers settled.) Besides this, he is ill-tempered and intolerant of others. He gives short-shrift in his judgments, and he has no patience for any exceptions to the rule.

He is a staunch advocate for educational reform. He demands that "Creationism" be taught in the public schools - none of that "evil-lution" monkey business for him! - and that the Bible be used as the text for biology class. "That’ll learn’em," he says dogmatically. He is a firm believer in family values, although he himself was just recently divorced for the second time. (This is a sore subject with him.) And he is absolutely against abortion; there can be no excuse for abortion - not under any circumstances. (Curiously, he has a great number of excuses for why he has not paid his child support; but that is another matter.)

He has many other qualities too numerous to mention, but when all is said and done, he believes - honest to God - that he is a good person, and that Jesus loves him. Needs must it be so - for Christ’s sake! - for no one else does.

What is the point of this post? Who exactly are you attacking? Are you saying that all Christians are this way? Are you saying that most Christians are this way? For most Christians, the person you've described sounds a lot like a fundamentalist who, unfortunately, is very lost. If your argument is that Christians epitomize hypocrisy, then you've done a poor job. Here is a good stereotype for you:

He is convinced that he owns logic. He is right because by definition he must be right. In order to be logical, you must be an atheist. Logic is the way to all truth and anything that is not logical at the time must not be true. Obviously there is no God because there is no evidence that God exists, regardless of the mass numbers of testimony. And if he'd lived in thousands of years ago he'd clearly state that electrons don't exist because there is no evidence of them. Evolution, he says, must be true because my high school science teacher told me so. But those Christians are idiots because they have faith. Yes, all Christians are idiots and have no ability to use logic. He forgets that so many great minds were Christian like Newton and Pascal. He gets upset and screams and yells when someone mentions that they believe in God...he hates their dogmatic ways...what idiots he says, you have to believe in evolution, uniformitarianism, big bang, and objectivist philosophy in order to be intelligent and right. He appears to be just as dogmatic as the Medieval church he despises and criticizes for being dogmatic. He constantly praises himself for being objective, criticizing those Christians for being biased and working off presuppositions. However, his own reasons for not believing in God are because of his distaste for the idea of a creator. He, of course, knows he is the open mind as all other atheists...of course! He is open minded because his position is different than that of those narrow-minded Christians.

[easternerDC]

Originally Posted by Nikk

Marriage is a God institution. It is the bringing together of two people of the opposite sex to form a relationship before God.

Maybe that is the point of marriage in YOUR church, but marriage is not a religious institution.

I have a marriage certificate. I was married before my family and friends. My wedding ceremony did not include mention of god or religion or any blessings (aside from blessings from my family and friend who were in attendance). I don't think that my marriage is invalid or any less valid than a wedding ceremony performed in a church. If marriage was a religious institution the GOVERNMENT would not have signed and given me a marriage certificate.

If someone feels that getting married in the church solidifies their relationship with god, so be it. That is what makes the wedding ceremony special to them. BUT it is NOT OK for you to take your religious beliefs and ceremonies and dictate that that is how it should be for everyone.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by easternerDC

If someone feels that getting married in the church solidifies their relationship with god, so be it. That is what makes the wedding ceremony special to them. BUT it is NOT OK for you to take your religious beliefs and ceremonies and dictate that that is how it should be for everyone.

Well the sociological definition of marriage is aligned more with the "religious" definition--that is, marriage by definition is between one man and one woman. You need to first change the definition of marriage before you can have two men marry.

[easternerDC]

Marriage Definition

marriage - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

The cultural anthropology definition of marriage is social contract between two individuals that unites their lives legally, economically and emotionally. --- hmmm, I don't see god mentioned there or anything saying it CAN'T be same sex.