A Question: Heaven and Hell. (atheist, bible, faith, Christianity)

[ptsum]

Originally Posted by PG77

But you do know about Jesus Christ and his message?

I have read your Christian Bible however I do not believe that it is the true word of your God, you see anything that is written by man can be interpreted many different ways and no two interpretations are the same.
My culture as had the same belief for hundreds of thousands of years and it has never changed.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by ptsum

Alpha, no disrespect in your belief but I have committed no crime within my culture and I realize this may be hard for you to understand but the only prison that I am in is the physical body that my spirit is in and the only crime would be for me not to obtain the knowledge and harmony and peace for me to carry over into the next world. You see in my culture true knowledge is what sets your spirit free and enables you to obtain spiritual heights.

No disrespect taken.

I don't think our cultures will have anything to do with the afterlife.

If you've been exposed to the Truth (and I believe you have) then you are accountable for that Truth. You asked for a Christian perspective and that's what I have tried to give you.

I understand you might not agree or accept it, but it is what it is.

Christians don't believe God cares one bit about what is or isn't accepted in our man-made cultures. There are Christians in the American Indian culture. There are Christians in the Islamic culture. There are Christians is virtually every culture.

Here's one example: AICM

And here's another mission I am pretty familiar with in Alaska. Again, Christianity in a non-Christian culture: Kiana Baptist Mission SBC - Kiana Alaska

[esselcue]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

I hope ILNC doesn't mind me stepping in here, but I can 'not believe' in prison all I want to but it won't change the fact that if I'm guilty of a crime I will still go there. Even in the face of my unbelief of where I am being sent.

Interesting analogy, but really kind of silly. There is a vast amount of difference between a spiritual belief and a man-made prison. Dharmic religions, beliefs, philosophies are all similar to Native American beliefs in that the spirit continues after death. We, as living spiritual beings, are dealing with our own wrong-doings (sins if you may) every day of our lives and we suffer or enjoy the consequences of our actions. The idea in a literal heaven or hell simply is not a part of that belief system.

And yes, I do know the words that are attributed to Jesus (but written down by others): A spiritual man...a teacher, an historical figure who had great love and tolerence and appreciation for the flaws and foibles of mankind.

[Scott Summers]

God is good, right? Why would the ultimate good in the universe hand over people to the ultimate evil (the Devil)? That would mean that there's some type of partnership and I know better than that. Some people say that hell is a symbolic place and according to REV 20:10 it is because the Overseer of "hell" the devil himself will be thrown in there with the prophet and the wild beast (the latter two are symbolic). Some people need to do more research because hell, hai'des, and she;ohl all mean the same exact thing. I think heaven is a real place.

[ptsum]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

No disrespect taken.

I don't think our cultures will have anything to do with the afterlife.

Alpha, I think in this you and I will disagree because in my culture and the afterlife plays a very big role in what we do and how we treat one another.

If you've been exposed to the Truth (and I believe you have) then you are accountable for that Truth. You asked for a Christian perspective and that's what I have tried to give you.

I have been exposed to what you call your Truth however I have been brought up in a culture of what we have considered a greater Truth. You are correct that I did ask for a Christian perspective and I thank you for taking the time to answer my question.


I understand you might not agree or accept it, but it is what it is.

And I understand that at least we can disagree with respect.

Christians don't believe God cares one bit about what is or isn't accepted in our man-made cultures. There are Christians in the American Indian culture. There are Christians in the Islamic culture. There are Christians is virtually every culture.

Here's one example: AICM

And here's another mission I am pretty familiar with in Alaska. Again, Christianity in a non-Christian culture: Kiana Baptist Mission SBC - Kiana Alaska

Yes I am very familiar with the conversion of many native people to the Christian belief although I may not believe with the way it was done in the past. There are however those native people who have turned away from Christianity and have gone back to their ancient beliefs.

[Tricky D]

The concept of heaven and hell is all about crime and punishment.
Once you believe that people are guilty of a crime before they were even being conceived in their mother's womb and can only be judged fairly if they accept Christ it gives the Christians (who believe this philosophy) an excuse to convert heathens into Christianity by any means necessary.
All the while saying that this forceful change is for the good of the heathen.

Forcefully converting heathens into Christianity is as aggressive and immoral as the ancient tactic of killing all the males of the conquered race/tribe and then rape the women to insure that the conquered race/tribe would eventually either become extinct or be usurped by the invaders.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by ptsum

ILNC, I do not want to be disrespectful to you but you are a Christian and this is your belief and I do believe that the concept of heaven and hell is a Christian belief and not that of other cultures, so how is it that those who do not believe the way you do and do not accept your Jesus as their savior is going to go to some place that they do not believe in and is not of their culture.

No disrespect taken by me either, and I do agree with what Alpha said about this. I believe the concept of Heaven and hell is a Christian belief, I believe it is taught all through out the Bible, which I believe is God's Word and Jesus said He is the truth and the only way to Heaven.

[Oakback]

Originally Posted by ptsum

I have read your Christian Bible however I do not believe that it is the true word of your God, you see anything that is written by man can be interpreted many different ways and no two interpretations are the same.
My culture as had the same belief for hundreds of thousands of years and it has never changed.

With all due respect,
do you believe ( as I do ) that there are consequences for what we choose to do in this life, that will echo in eternity?

[PG77]

Originally Posted by ptsum

I have read your Christian Bible however I do not believe that it is the true word of your God, you see anything that is written by man can be interpreted many different ways and no two interpretations are the same.
My culture as had the same belief for hundreds of thousands of years and it has never changed.

Although I feel that the Native Americans have a great sense of spirit and I respect that, if you do know the message of Jesus and still do not believe, according to God's Word, there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ.

[moonsavvy]

Interesting post ptsum. It's also key to know that many people are embracing ancient teachings outside of Christianity and the bible. Many of us have left the religions that we were raised in because it just didn't make sense.

If the concept of heaven and hell is true from a Christian perspective, with all due respect to Christians, I would much rather spend an ETERNITY in hell around people like Trav, Pstum, Esselcue, June, Rubysky, Tricky, Seeker, Montana, GCSTroop, Kerby and (most of the people in the sacred circle) who would all be there. Than an eternity in Heaven with...narrow minded thinking that one way is the only way and too bad for those poor souls in hell, if only they would have listened.

Party in "Hell", I'll see ya there.