The Book of Abraham (translation, Mormonism, Egyptian, church)

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by PaulMcNabb

Is that the best you've got? Some tired old anti-Mormon tripe?

If you are going to attack my religion, at least show the courtesy of presenting some kind of reasonable argument...

A reasonable argument is the Egyptian papyrus that Joseph Smith said the Book of Abraham was written on. At the time, hieroglyphics were unreadable, but with new findings (like the Rosetta Stone) people can now translate Egyptian writings. What Joseph Smith used to "read" the Book of Abraham is actually a Book of the Dead as part of Egyptian rituals. This page talks about it, and shows both sides of the argument.

Apologists say what Joseph Smith used is actually a different part of the papyrus than what we have to compare (not all of it survived). However, Smith published a picture in a newspaper complete with a translation of the hieroglyphics next to it on the original. Smith also drew in what he thought was the rest of the picture on sections that were missing. This website provides visuals that show you just how similar the newspaper facsimile is to the original papyrus. Remember, there were no photocopy machines back then.

Evidence like this could easily be used to "prove beyond reasonable doubt" that Joseph Smith did not translate the papyrus correctly.

[JNHarris]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

A reasonable argument is the Egyptian papyrus that Joseph Smith said the Book of Abraham was written on. At the time, hieroglyphics were unreadable, but with new findings (like the Rosetta Stone) people can now translate Egyptian writings. What Joseph Smith used to "read" the Book of Abraham is actually a Book of the Dead as part of Egyptian rituals. This page talks about it, and shows both sides of the argument.

Apologists say what Joseph Smith used is actually a different part of the papyrus than what we have to compare (not all of it survived). However, Smith published a picture in a newspaper complete with a translation of the hieroglyphics next to it on the original. Smith also drew in what he thought was the rest of the picture on sections that were missing. This website provides visuals that show you just how similar the newspaper facsimile is to the original papyrus. Remember, there were no photocopy machines back then.

Evidence like this could easily be used to "prove beyond reasonable doubt" that Joseph Smith did not translate the papyrus correctly.

Nice links portraying "both sides"... both from anti-mormon sites. For those that are actually interested in investigating on your own, seeing the water before the cattle have waded through it, here are a few additional links, the first of which is a link to the actual Book of Abraham.

Enjoy...

Abraham

FAIR Topical Guide: Book of Abraham

The Book of Abraham Project®

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by JNHarris

Nice links portraying "both sides"... both from anti-mormon sites. For those that are actually interested in investigating on your own, seeing the water before the cattle have waded through it, here are a few additional links, the first of which is a link to the actual Book of Abraham.

Enjoy...

Abraham

FAIR Topical Guide: Book of Abraham

The Book of Abraham Project®

I realize that the two sites I gave were "anti-mormon," but they did show both sides. I did not have time to find articles on more "neutral" sites. The conclusions were "anti-mormon," but the facts were not skewed. The important thing, especially in the second site, was just to compare the two images.

I thank you for giving extra sites also. The FAIR website gave a pro-mormon conclusion, although it showed both sides too. I have to question the BOAP site though, as it is very vague, and when I clicked on the "critics" link, it said "forbidden." Obviously it doesn't want to show the other side...

I suggest to the reader to read all websites, and either ignore the conclusions and form your own (as unbiased as possible) or read both sides to see which is more credible.

[JNHarris]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

I realize that the two sites I gave were "anti-mormon," but they did show both sides. I did not have time to find articles on more "neutral" sites. The conclusions were "anti-mormon," but the facts were not skewed. The important thing, especially in the second site, was just to compare the two images.

I thank you for giving extra sites also. The FAIR website gave a pro-mormon conclusion, although it showed both sides too. I have to question the BOAP site though, as it is very vague, and when I clicked on the "critics" link, it said "forbidden." Obviously it doesn't want to show the other side...

I suggest to the reader to read all websites, and either ignore the conclusions and form your own (as unbiased as possible) or read both sides to see which is more credible.

Thanks Logic,

There are no neutral sites when it comes to "Mormonism." The fundamental question at play is whether Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God or not. If he is, the Book of Abraham is true. Logical arguments can be made on either side regrading its veracity.

The best tool to discern if Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God is the Book of Mormon.

In addition to Joseph Smith, three witnessed an angel, saw the golden plates and heard the voice of the Lord confirm its truthfulness.

Eight others saw and handled the plates.

None of these 11 every recanted their testimony, though some of them later disagreed with Smith on issues of policy, etc. and left the church (even more incentive for them to have recanted their testimony if invalid... claiming they were duped, tricked, etc.).

One can gain their own witness from God through the Holy Ghost that The Book of Mormon is true by reading it and praying about it.

There are multiple websites devoted to proving and/or disproving it logically. I need not provide links here, they can be easily found with google. These websites aren't "neutral."

Again, in regards to the doctrines, teachings and scripture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there really aren't any "neutral" sites.

Truth is that way though... as the Bible teaches, it is as a sword, dividing asunder.

When one is encountered with truth from God and comes to learn of it... one must either accept or reject it. It is very difficult to remain neutrally on the sharp edge of the blade.

[SuSuSushi]

Originally Posted by JNHarris

The best tool to discern if Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God is the Book of Mormon.

You sound like the xtians when they say the bible is true because the bible says so.