Non Christian views of Jesus (souls, grace, disciples, hell)

[Travelling fella]

Hello and merry Christmas my dear friends

I decided to start this thread because there have been some threads about views of Jesus from a non Christian perspective, so I thought it'd be interesting to share diferent points of view from different religions and even atheists points of view.

Christians are welcome to participate too, but please keep in mind that the point of this thread is to share and talk about different perspectives of this holy figure.

I'll start with an outlook of Jesus from a Hindu perspective:

There is a distinguishing difference of meaning between Jesus and Christ. His given name was Jesus; his honorific title was "Christ" In his little human body called Jesus was born the vast Christ Consciousness, the omniscient Intelligence of God omnipresent in every part and particle of creation. This consciousness is the "only begotten Son of God," so designated because it is the sole perfect reflection in creation of the Trascenental Absolute, Spirit or God the Father.

It was of that Infinite Conciousness, replete with the love and bliss of God, that Saint John spoke when he said: "As many as received him [the Christ Consciousness], to them gave he power to become the sons of God." Thus according to Jesus' own teaching as recorded by his most highly advanced apostle, John, all souls who become united with Christ Consciousness by intuitive Self-Realization are rightly called sons of God.

A small cup cannot hold an ocean within itself. Likewise, the cup of human consciousness, limited by the physical and mental instrumentalities of material perceptions, cannot grasp the universal Christ Consciousness, no matter how desirous one may be of doing so. By the definite science of meditation known for millenniums to the yogis and sages of India, and to Jesus, any seeker of God can enlarge the caliber of his consciousness to omniscience - to receive within himself the Universal Intelligence of God.

What Jesus gave as chronicled in the New Testament of the Bible very few people understand. They just read what he said and quote it; and because it is written in the biblical Scripture they believe it blindly, with little effort to realize the wisdom therein through personal experience. Realization is to attune one's consciousness with Christ; then the right comprehension will come. When persons try to deduce the meanings of Jesus' words by intellectual analysis alone, or from the perspective of a specific dogma, they inevitably distort his sayings to suit their purpose - however well intentioned - or to comfortably accomodate their level of understanding. Christ wisdom has to be grasped by communion not by rationalization.

Christ did not go through the sublime drama of his life merely to provide sermon material for generations of preachers and their Sunday audiences. He lived, died and was gloriously resurrected as an inspiration to others to live a divine life and attain in themselves his experiences of God and the afterlife.

Jesus Christ was crucified once; but his teachings are crucified daily at the hands of superstition, dogmatism and pedantic theological misinterpretations.

The saviors of the world do not come to foster inmical doctrinal divisions; their teachings shold not be used toward that end. It is something of a misnomer even to refer to the New Testament as the "Christian" Bible, for it does not belong exclusively to any one sect.

Truth is meant for the blessing and upliftment of the entire human race. As the Christ Consciousness is universal, so does Jesus Christ belong to all.

The Good Shepherd of souls opened his arms to all, rejecting none, and with universal love coaxed the world to follow him on the path to liberation through the example of his spirit of sacrifice, renunciation, forgiveness, love for friend and enemy alike, and the supreme love for God above all else. As the tiny babe in the manger at Bethlehem, and as the savior who healed the sick and raised the dead and applied the salve of love on the wounds of errors, the Christ in Jesus lived among men as one of them that they too might learn to live like gods.

For mere mortals to cope with a life of unsolved and unsolvable mysteries in an inscrutable universe created by the omnipotence of God, of the omniscient essence of His omnipresence, would indeed be an overwhelming challenge were it not for divine emissaries who come on earth to speak with the voice and authority of God for the guidance of man.

Aeons past, in ancient higher ages in India, rishis (enlightened men) enunciated the manifestation of Divine Beneficence, of "God with us," in terms of divine incarnations, avatars - God incarnate on earth in enlightened beings. The eternal, omnipresent, unchanging Spirit has neither a corporeal nor heavenly form called God. Nor as the Lord God Creator He fashion a form in which He then deigns to dwell among His creatures. Rather, He makes Himself known through the divinity in worthy instruments. Many are the voices that have intermediated between God and man, khanda avatars, or partial incarnations in God-knowing souls. Less common are the purna avatars, liberated beings who are fully one with God; their return to earth is to fulfill a God ordained mission. The lord in the sacred Hindu Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, declares: "Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an Avatar. In visible form I appear from age to age to protect the virtous and to destroy evildoing in order to reestablish righteousness" (Bhagavad Gita chapter IV:7-8). The same one glorious infinite consciousness of God, the Universal Christ Consciousness, Kutastha Chaitanya, becomes familiarly apparelled in the individuality of an enlightened soul, graced with a distinguishing personality and godly nature appropiate to the times and purpose of the incarnation.

Without this intercession of God's love come to earth in the example, message, and guiding hand of His avatars, it would scarce be possible for groping humanity to find the path into God's kingdom midst the dark miasma of world delusion, the cosmic substance of human habitation. Lest his benighted children be lost forever in creation's delusive labyrinths, the Lord comes again and again in God-illumined prophets to light the way. The glory of Christ in the form of Jesus made visible the Invisible Light that leads to God.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

Hello and merry Christmas my dear friends

I decided to start this thread because there have been some threads about views of Jesus from a non Christian perspective, so I thought it'd be interesting to share diferent points of view from different religions and even atheists points of view.

Christians are welcome to participate too, but please keep in mind that the point of this thread is to share and talk about different perspectives of this holy figure.

I'll start with an outlook of Jesus from a Hindu perspective:

There is a distinguishing difference of meaning between Jesus and Christ. His given name was Jesus; his honorific title was "Christ" In his little human body called Jesus was born the vast Christ Consciousness, the omniscient Intelligence of God omnipresent in every part and particle of creation. This consciousness is the "only begotten Son of God," so designated because it is the sole perfect reflection in creation of the Trascenental Absolute, Spirit or God the Father.

It was of that Infinite Conciousness, replete with the love and bliss of God, that Saint John spoke when he said: "As many as received him [the Christ Consciousness], to them gave he power to become the sons of God." Thus according to Jesus' own teaching as recorded by his most highly advanced apostle, John, all souls who become united with Christ Consciousness by intuitive Self-Realization are rightly called sons of God.

A small cup cannot hold an ocean within itself. Likewise, the cup of human consciousness, limited by the physical and mental instrumentalities of material perceptions, cannot grasp the universal Christ Consciousness, no matter how desirous one may be of doing so. By the definite science of meditation known for millenniums to the yogis and sages of India, and to Jesus, any seeker of God can enlarge the caliber of his consciousness to omniscience - to receive within himself the Universal Intelligence of God.

What Jesus gave as chronicled in the New Testament of the Bible very few people understand. They just read what he said and quote it; and because it is written in the biblical Scripture they believe it blindly, with little effort to realize the wisdom therein through personal experience. Realization is to attune one's consciousness with Christ; then the right comprehension will come. When persons try to deduce the meanings of Jesus' words by intellectual analysis alone, or from the perspective of a specific dogma, they inevitably distort his sayings to suit their purpose - however well intentioned - or to comfortably accomodate their level of understanding. Christ wisdom has to be grasped by communion not by rationalization.

Christ did not go through the sublime drama of his life merely to provide sermon material for generations of preachers and their Sunday audiences. He lived, died and was gloriously resurrected as an inspiration to others to live a divine life and attain in themselves his experiences of God and the afterlife.

Jesus Christ was crucified once; but his teachings are crucified daily at the hands of superstition, dogmatism and pedantic theological misinterpretations.

The saviors of the world do not come to foster inmical doctrinal divisions; their teachings shold not be used toward that end. It is something of a misnomer even to refer to the New Testament as the "Christian" Bible, for it does not belong exclusively to any one sect.

Truth is meant for the blessing and upliftment of the entire human race. As the Christ Consciousness is universal, so does Jesus Christ belong to all.

The Good Shepherd of souls opened his arms to all, rejecting none, and with universal love coaxed the world to follow him on the path to liberation through the example of his spirit of sacrifice, renunciation, forgiveness, love for friend and enemy alike, and the supreme love for God above all else. As the tiny babe in the manger at Bethlehem, and as the savior who healed the sick and raised the dead and applied the salve of love on the wounds of errors, the Christ in Jesus lived among men as one of them that they too might learn to live like gods.

For mere mortals to cope with a life of unsolved and unsolvable mysteries in an inscrutable universe created by the omnipotence of God, of the omniscient essence of His omnipresence, would indeed be an overwhelming challenge were it not for divine emissaries who come on earth to speak with the voice and authority of God for the guidance of man.

Aeons past, in ancient higher ages in India, rishis (enlightened men) enunciated the manifestation of Divine Beneficence, of "God with us," in terms of divine incarnations, avatars - God incarnate on earth in enlightened beings. The eternal, omnipresent, unchanging Spirit has neither a corporeal nor heavenly form called God. Nor as the Lord God Creator He fashion a form in which He then deigns to dwell among His creatures. Rather, He makes Himself known through the divinity in worthy instruments. Many are the voices that have intermediated between God and man, khanda avatars, or partial incarnations in God-knowing souls. Less common are the purna avatars, liberated beings who are fully one with God; their return to earth is to fulfill a God ordained mission. The lord in the sacred Hindu Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, declares: "Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an Avatar. In visible form I appear from age to age to protect the virtous and to destroy evildoing in order to reestablish righteousness" (Bhagavad Gita chapter IV:7-8). The same one glorious infinite consciousness of God, the Universal Christ Consciousness, Kutastha Chaitanya, becomes familiarly apparelled in the individuality of an enlightened soul, graced with a distinguishing personality and godly nature appropiate to the times and purpose of the incarnation.

Without this intercession of God's love come to earth in the example, message, and guiding hand of His avatars, it would scarce be possible for groping humanity to find the path into God's kingdom midst the dark miasma of world delusion, the cosmic substance of human habitation. Lest his benighted children be lost forever in creation's delusive labyrinths, the Lord comes again and again in God-illumined prophets to light the way. The glory of Christ in the form of Jesus made visible the Invisible Light that leads to God.

That was an insightful and beautiful explanation, Travelling . . . Thank you. Sorry I missed it during Christmas.

[AaronK]

When I was an atheist, my only impression of Jesus was that he was a humble man with some good teachings and some bad followers. I also questioned whether or not he was real.

Of course, my views have changed significantly. There is much more depth to my views.

[Lady Ice]

I think that if he did indeed exist he was a great teacher and a very evolved soul. I think that if today's "Christians" actually followed his teachings the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately though they seem to pick and choose which teachings they will follow and refer back to the OT when it suits their purposes. For example the old "eye for an eye" quote, Jesus taught that you should not follow that rule anymore, that you should "turn the other cheek" and yet I've heard it come out of so many "Christian" mouths.

[Vessif]

Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the Saviour of mankind..... GOD......He also said "unless you believe I am who I say I am you will die in your sins"....."He also said NO ONE comes to the Father except by me"......He claimed to come from heaven and was going back to his father in Heaven.....He also told the Pharises that before Abraham existed "I AM".....He also said He would return in POWER and GLORY on the day of judgement........He claimed to be much more then a human who possessed great consciousness...........He claimed to be GOD Himself.......Jesus Christ can only be truely accepted on "HIS TERMS"

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Vessif

Jesus Christ can only be truely accepted on "HIS TERMS"

Amazing how many seem to have the courage to speak FOR Jesus and decide who can and cannot accept him. It boggles.

[Vessif]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Amazing how many seem to have the courage to speak FOR Jesus and decide who can and cannot accept him. It boggles.

It boggles me how non Christians would like to make Jesus someone whom who fits into their universal, politically correct box......Jesus is who he claimed to be.......either accept Him on his terms or not.....we are all "free to choose" what we "want" to believe but he remains who he says He is irregardless of our multiple views......He is GOD

[Fred314X]

Originally Posted by Vessif

Jesus claimed to be the Messiah

He never made that claim of himself, largely because it would have been considered treason under Roman law (remember that Judea was under Roman occupation at the time) where a claim of messiah-hood would have been taken as a direct threat to the emperor. He'd have been removed from society before he ever even got started with his teachings.

Lots of other people have made that claim...many more than anyone has the ability to count. But it was never uttered by Jesus himself.

[Vessif]

Originally Posted by Fred314X

He never made that claim of himself, largely because it would have been considered treason under Roman law (remember that Judea was under Roman occupation at the time) where a claim of messiah-hood would have been taken as a direct threat to the emperor. He'd have been removed from society before he ever even got started with his teachings.

Lots of other people have made that claim...many more than anyone has the ability to count. But it was never uttered by Jesus himself.

I'm sorry but you are mistaken: Jesus asked his disciples, "who do the people say that I am?" when he asked them directly who "they" thought he was Simon Peter spoke up and said " You are the Messiah the Son of the Living God"......Jesus affirmmed what Peter said and that this revealation had been revealed to Peter by God (not from any man)......Also in John4:25-26....he told the samaritan woman at the well that he was the Messiah.....these are only 2 of many times Jesus declared his diety.....His miraculous healings and other miracles as well as His ressurection point to the fact that he was and is GOD.

[Fred314X]

Originally Posted by Vessif

His miraculous healings and other miracles as well as His ressurection point to the fact that he was and is GOD.

Pardonnez moi. I thought that maybe God would have a slightly different opinion on the matter.