Israel vs. Hamas (America, suicide, Muslim, Jewish)

[MrsMtnsOnTheMind]

Any one care to discuss the events taking place in Israel at the moment?

[MontanaGuy]

I think Hamas is the reason that Israel is building that huge security fence and that they're the cause of Israeli military engagement. Of course it's a trajedy because hundreds of completely innocent civilians have died. The problem with terrorism is that a nation under attack is not facing a traditional army or navy and generally can't engage in a battle as we did in World War II. Israel fights the terrorists to the best of their ability after their own civilians are killed in suicide bombings, rocket attacks, etc. and I believe they have a right to do so. Hamas doesn't believe that Israel should even exist and their only purpose is to cause as much damage to Israel as possible. There are no easy solutions to this situation. As much as I dislike the thought of innocent people dying, including women and children, I wouldn't expect any nation to just do nothing as their own citizens are slaughtered in terrorist attacks.

[GCSTroop]

Actually, I think that Israel is just as much at fault in this thing as Hamas is. The Jews are every bit as hostile and offensive as any of the terrorists of Hamas are.

Keep in mind, our news stations are run by a heavy concentration of Jewish people. You don't really think we're going to get any news about the wacko Zionist Jewish movements in Israel do you?

I personally don't see any hope for that part of the world and/or that region for a very long time to come - if ever. But, I don't think we should be pointing fingers just yet because I'm not entirely certain Israel is at all right in this.

[MrsMtnsOnTheMind]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

Actually, I think that Israel is just as much at fault in this thing as Hamas is. The Jews are every bit as hostile and offensive as any of the terrorists of Hamas are.

Keep in mind, our news stations are run by a heavy concentration of Jewish people. You don't really think we're going to get any news about the wacko Zionist Jewish movements in Israel do you?

I personally don't see any hope for that part of the world and/or that region for a very long time to come - if ever. But, I don't think we should be pointing fingers just yet because I'm not entirely certain Israel is at all right in this.

Israel and Hamas have been under a mutually agreed cease fire for the past year and it was Hamas that violated the agreement by launching rockets (unprovoked) into Israel. Hamas has admitted this openly and is the reason why a lot of Palestinians are upset with Hamas.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind

Israel and Hamas have been under a mutually agreed cease fire for the past year and it was Hamas that violated the agreement by launching rockets (unprovoked) into Israel. Hamas has admitted this openly.

I understand that. All I'm saying is that the tensions over there are always portrayed as coming strictly from the Muslim side rather than both sides. Both sides have done their fair share in not helping the situation over the years. This is not the first time a cease-fire agreement has been broken and I'm quite certain that I remember a few years ago when Israel just liquified some Palestinian buildings (in the middle of a ceasefire) for no real good reason. This is not the first time a ceasefire has been broken. Both parties are just as guilty in the past. We shouldn't be so one-sided in how we approach this thing. That's precisely why the Muslim world began to hate us. Just a thought.

Edit: Here are a few links to what I'm talking about. And, no, I'm not trying to pick on Israel or take sides with Hamas - I'm just saying that both sides are really way out of line and that we as a nation should not be so adamant to back up Israel with every thing they do. And upon further research, you'll notice that there is a widespread argument every time something flares up on who actually breached the ceasefire.

http://occupiedlove.blogspot.com/200...e-invades.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5266688.stm

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/08/world/fg-gaza8

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/en...528_71205.html

[Darwin Rules]

One should keep in mind that Hamas (and Iran) have clearly stated that their objective is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Basically, they are saying we want to destroy your country and kill all your citizens. How do you deal with that kind of irrational thinking? I am not a big backer of Israel but really can't see any other way to deal with Hamas other than to kill them all. It is very unfortunate that innocent people end up having to pay such a high price.

[MontanaGuy]

Troop wrote:

Actually, I think that Israel is just as much at fault in this thing as Hamas is. The Jews are every bit as hostile and offensive as any of the terrorists of Hamas are.

There are alot of things that Israel does I don't agree with. I remember seeing a newsclip of some Israeli soldiers who had grabbed some young teenage boys in a field who had thrown stones at them and were trying to run away. It showed the soldiers breaking the arms of several of those boys. However you don't see Israel intentionally setting off bombs to kill civilians, they do attempt to act against the people who are attacking them. If this situation were occurring in the US and rockets were being fired into American cities from a neighboring nation and terrorists were blowing up buses on a regular basis I suspect that you'd see American citizens urging our military to use nukes. I'm not saying that's what I would want, I'm just suggesting that if we were in the same situation we'd be doing the same thing.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

Troop wrote:

There are alot of things that Israel does I don't agree with. I remember seeing a newsclip of some Israeli soldiers who had grabbed some young teenage boys in a field who had thrown stones at them and were trying to run away. It showed the soldiers breaking the arms of several of those boys. However you don't see Israel intentionally setting off bombs to kill civilians, they do attempt to act against the people who are attacking them. If this situation were occurring in the US and rockets were being fired into American cities from a neighboring nation and terrorists were blowing up buses on a regular basis I suspect that you'd see American citizens urging our military to use nukes. I'm not saying that's what I would want, I'm just suggesting that if we were in the same situation we'd be doing the same thing.

In all reality, Montana, it's kind of a strange thing that's happening over there. What continually keeps happening is that whenever there is a ceasefire one or the other side will have some member of a dissident group spring up and act on his own accord (usually). That's the main problem. It's kind of the same problem that we had in Iraq when groups of soldiers raped that young Iraqi girl. That wasn't at the behest of the American military, it was a group of people acting individually and on their own. Yet, everyone in the region viewed it as an act of American imperialism. What I'm getting at is that both sides have dissident groups that re-ignite these feuds and yet our media almost always portrays Hamas (or Hezbollah) as the group that started it.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Darwin Rules

One should keep in mind that Hamas (and Iran) have clearly stated that their objective is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Basically, they are saying we want to destroy your country and kill all your citizens. How do you deal with that kind of irrational thinking? I am not a big backer of Israel but really can't see any other way to deal with Hamas other than to kill them all. It is very unfortunate that innocent people end up having to pay such a high price.

It is unfortunate that people seem able to equate actions on the basis of their outcomes . . . without regard to their motivations. Killing is killing . . . but WHY and HOW it occurs and the stated goals of the killers is relevant . . . don't you think, Troop, et al. ?

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It is unfortunate that people seem able to equate actions on the basis of their outcomes . . . without regard to their motivations. Killing is killing . . . but WHY and HOW it occurs and the stated goals of the killers is relevant . . . don't you think, Troop, et al. ?

Certainly. I think it's especially hard in this ongoing feud with Palestine and Israel because it has been going on for so long that both sides have intense emotional feelings towards it. It's essentially gone beyond the point of trying to figure out who started what, when, and why. It's like the Hatfields and the McCoys at this point. I don't know if there really is a 'fix' for it.