Homosexuality in the New Testament? (salvation, grace, disciples, America)

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn

It amazes me how ignorant some people can be when it comes to not understanding we are not under the old law, which is why we don't adhere to it. As for homosexuality, it is spoken of in the NT as well.

I suggest you read the bible.

This came up in another thread, and we asked where it said in the NT that homosexuality was wrong. We got a bunch of veiled references to some sort of illicit sexual behavior (it was hard to tell if it was actually referring to homosexuality at all!). I believe a few quotes in Romans and one in Corinthians was cited. In both cases (IIRC) these were actually letters Paul was writing and not exactly straight from God's and/or Jesus' mouth (like in the OT).

I then pressed and asked if Jesus ever SPECIFICALLY mentioned homosexuality being wrong and no one could provide anything from the four gospel showing he ever mentioned the issue.

Now, I ask YOU...where in the NT does it reference homosexuality as a sin?

The fact is (as far as I can tell) is that the NT doesn't really address the issue and Christians get the whole "homosexuality is an abomination" mantra right from the OT, despite all of the lip-service to the NT being the new covenant with God.

edit to add the link for ambiguous NT references to homosexuality (see post 35): http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...-becoming.html

[mzjamiedawn]

Originally Posted by broadbill

This came up in another thread, and we asked where it said in the NT that homosexuality was wrong. We got a bunch of veiled references to some sort of illicit sexual behavior (it was hard to tell if it was actually referring to homosexuality at all!). I believe a few quotes in Romans and one in Corinthians was cited. In both cases (IIRC) these were actually letters Paul was writing and not exactly straight from God's and/or Jesus' mouth (like in the OT).

I then pressed and asked if Jesus ever SPECIFICALLY mentioned homosexuality being wrong and no one could provide anything from the four gospel showing he ever mentioned the issue.

Now, I ask YOU...where in the NT does it reference homosexuality as a sin?

The fact is (as far as I can tell) is that the NT doesn't really address the issue and Christians get the whole "homosexuality is an abomination" mantra right from the OT, despite all of the lip-service to the NT being the new covenant with God.

edit to add the link for ambiguous NT references to homosexuality (see post 35): http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...-becoming.html

If you don't believe that Paul spoke with the full authority of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, then we don't have any common ground to stand on.

[SeekerSA]

Seeing Jesus had nothing specifically to say about it, Paul does make mention and also that pesky thorn in his side which to this day we have no idea of apart from conjecture. Who knows, maybe he was a closet case.

Seeing there does appear to be a trend with the most vocal basher preachers on fornication or gays tend to end up becoming that which they despise .

The way I approach all this is via Matthew 23 where Jesus really gives it fives to the S&P's like going to the ends of the earth to make a convert to become twice the devil they were/are. I am of the opinion that Jesus would have treated this subject in the same manner. It is not like this is a new phenomina and IF He was the Father's representative as claimed, it sure would appear no different to the S&P's doctrine were He to reject the self same people they were rejecting because of some perceived sin/physical failing. Think about it.

If Jesus took the side of the religious "out of respect" how would He have stood out from the crowd? Just like then, today, His "representatives" do tend to smell a lot like the S&P's of old, Grace is noticeably absent in many cases.

As for Paul, it was not like he had insta poof revelation. He too made mistakes and grew as time went by. It does appear by careful study he changed his POV on certain issues.

The red letter bible or Jesus Words Only or Mid Acts folk do tend to have some merit in their teachings. They tend to reject Paul entirely as a "false prophet" However neither he nor the other disciples prophesied. It is debatable if the John of Revelation was the same John the beloved. Some scholars say the gospel John, Epistle John and Revelation John were not the same person based on writing styles and Revelation predated the gospel of John. Were they the same man, the style of the favorite gospel of John has the apocalyptic nuances of Revelation absent in his writings of the gospel and in fact the Epistles too.

But then again, the synoptics were not like minutes of meeting either.

[GCSTroop]

I just found out...

If you Google "City Data New Testament Homosexual" it yields 15,700 results....

Just saying...

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn

If you don't believe that Paul spoke with the full authority of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, then we don't have any common ground to stand on.

No I don't, but for argument sake...lets assume that he was inspired by God through the holy spirit.

STILL, his writings are vague at best and its not clear he is referring to homosexuality.

Therefore, the only time homosexuality is clearly denounced is in the OT. The same OT that you said was cast aside for the NT/new covenant .

So I'll ask again: why does Christianity take a hard stance on homosexuality?

I hope you also understand where the criticism comes from that Christians pick and choose their bible verses.

[mzjamiedawn]

Originally Posted by broadbill

No I don't, but for argument sake...lets assume that he was inspired by God through the holy spirit.

STILL, his writings are vague at best and its not clear he is referring to homosexuality.

Therefore, the only time homosexuality is clearly denounced is in the OT. The same OT that you said was cast aside for the NT/new covenant .

So I'll ask again: why does Christianity take a hard stance on homosexuality?

I hope you also understand where the criticism comes from that Christians pick and choose their bible verses.

I am studying about homosexuality for personal reasons (no, I'm not a closet lesbian). So far, what you claim to be vague, I see clearly.

Not only what Paul has said, but for the simple fact also that God made man and woman, said the man is to leave mother and father and cleave to his wife, becoming one. Marriage is between man and woman. Sex outside of marriage is sin. Therefore, homosexual relations is sinful.

This is what I have concluded so far. I will never stop studying.

I do understand the criticism of picking and choosing. Definitely. I see it daily when it comes to verses on salvation.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

I just found out...

If you Google "City Data New Testament Homosexual" it yields 15,700 results....

Just saying...

Can you say "Obsession" . . .

[Shiloh1]

Originally Posted by broadbill

This came up in another thread, and we asked where it said in the NT that homosexuality was wrong. We got a bunch of veiled references to some sort of illicit sexual behavior (it was hard to tell if it was actually referring to homosexuality at all!). I believe a few quotes in Romans and one in Corinthians was cited. In both cases (IIRC) these were actually letters Paul was writing and not exactly straight from God's and/or Jesus' mouth (like in the OT).

I then pressed and asked if Jesus ever SPECIFICALLY mentioned homosexuality being wrong and no one could provide anything from the four gospel showing he ever mentioned the issue.

Now, I ask YOU...where in the NT does it reference homosexuality as a sin?

The fact is (as far as I can tell) is that the NT doesn't really address the issue and Christians get the whole "homosexuality is an abomination" mantra right from the OT, despite all of the lip-service to the NT being the new covenant with God.

edit to add the link for ambiguous NT references to homosexuality (see post 35): http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...-becoming.html

Well according to the OP you say "NT" and as far as I remember Paul is in the NT so ROmans and Cor. still stand. And jesus made infrence to it by stating that all of the law and the prophets are summed up in these two commandments - 'love God with all your heart...' you finish it. I think the Lev. commandments are included in there. If you want to keep moving the goal posts I am sure we can eventually get rid of all prohibitions. Tutaloo!!!

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Can you say "Obsession" . . .

I can..."Obsession". I have long wondered about the hang ups, or obsession, if you will, that many Christians seem to have about all things sexual. Are they that sexually repressed?

[Miss Blue]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

I just found out...

If you Google "City Data New Testament Homosexual" it yields 15,700 results....

Just saying...

Only troop would have done the research..Is that counting this thread ?