Christian "salvation." Is it REALLY a free gift? (grace, hell)

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

There is a fundamental contradiction in the evangelical message of salvation because, according to them, it is NOT Christ's atoning death that saves you, it is YOUR BELIEF in it. (otherwise everyone would be saved). Therefore, this is not a salvation by grace, it is another salvation by works, albeit cognitive work. You must DO several things - find out about and understand the atonement, accept that Jesus dies for your sins, feel guilt and express your sorrow for being responsible, ask forgiveness, and invite Jesus "into your heart" to rule for the rest of your life.

The rest

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

There is a fundamental contradiction in the evangelical message of salvation because, according to them, it is NOT Christ's atoning death that saves you, it is YOUR BELIEF in it. (otherwise everyone would be saved). Therefore, this is not a salvation by grace, it is another salvation by works, albeit cognitive work. You must DO several things - find out about and understand the atonement, accept that Jesus dies for your sins, feel guilt and express your sorrow for being responsible, ask forgiveness, and invite Jesus "into your heart" to rule for the rest of your life.

The rest

No. It's his atoning sacrifice. If you have a parking fine, and I hand you $100...it's up to you to apply it to your account--even if it's me paying the bill.

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

No. It's his atoning sacrifice. If you have a parking fine, and I hand you $100...it's up to you to apply it to your account--even if it's me paying the bill.

Work?

[mkat321]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

Work?

Pretty much. Kind of proves your point, which is a question/issue of point shared by many others.

[nightflight]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

No. It's his atoning sacrifice. If you have a parking fine, and I hand you $100...it's up to you to apply it to your account--even if it's me paying the bill.

So its like that? How do you come to that conclusion? I can think of other scenarios of giving a "free gift" like donating a kidney or blood, resuscitating a person who is unconscious, an anonymous donation, etc. You simply used a narrow analogy that serves your belief.

[Boxcar Overkill]

Let's not forget, salvation also isn't a gift because it was God that was putting us in hell in the first place.
It would be a gift if the DEVIL made hell, and the DEVIL was trying to put us in hell, and God came and saved us.
But GOD made hell, and GOD is the one that will torture you, so if he lets you escape torture by worshiping him, it's not really a gift. It's Extortion.

I say thanks, but no thanks. Don't try to send me to hell in the first place, and then I won't need any saving.

Not much of a gift.

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill

Let's not forget, salvation also isn't a gift because it was God that was putting us in hell in the first place.
It would be a gift if the DEVIL made hell, and the DEVIL was trying to put us in hell, and God came and saved us.
But GOD made hell, and GOD is the one that will torture you, so if he lets you escape torture by worshiping him, it's not really a gift. It's Extortion.

I say thanks, but no thanks. Don't try to send me to hell in the first place, and then I won't need any saving.

Not much of a gift.

I guess Sonrise needs to visit this thread, huh?

[nebulous1]

The bible says Many are called but few are chosen. So it doesn't sound like you make the choice.

[Spotted1]

All the cognitive work of maintaining faith and attaining heaven aside, one should also consider the hours and experiences lost to fundamentalism. If this life should be the only one we do get, then fundamentalists who spend a good 1/5th of their life attending church and church related functions and events, including prayer and individual worship, are really losing a lot of time that could be better spent. All those Sunday mornings spent being yelled at by a red faced preacher shouting about fire and brimstone could've been spent having a peaceful extended sit down breakfast with your family. Or that week you spent working for and shipping your kids to Vacation Bible School every summer could've been spent on a family vacation that would've strengthened your familial bonds and improved family life.

Such a shame, really.

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

Um...Kbdrich???