Question regarding Jewish Messiah (Isaiah, churches, prophets, Israel)

[kdbrich]

You guys don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. I get that.

But based on the prophets, Messiah is supposed to come from the Tribe of Judah. Do you guys have any way of verifying the tribe of someone who comes claiming to be Messiah?

[Antlered Chamataka]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

You guys don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. I get that.

But based on the prophets, Messiah is supposed to come from the Tribe of Judah. Do you guys have any way of verifying the tribe of someone who comes claiming to be Messiah?

You're an anti-semite

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis

You're an anti-semite

No, sir. My Lord came from the Jews.

[Antlered Chamataka]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

No, sir. My Lord came from the Jews.

Man I was just joking.

I have asked this question in offline life and I was dismissed as an anti-semitic B despite my innocence.

There are some Q's a catholic boy must not ask.

I was expecting you would respond "weak"

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis

Man I was just joking.

I have asked this question in offline life and I was dismissed as an anti-semitic B despite my innocence.

There are some Q's a catholic boy must not ask.

I was expecting you would respond "weak"

I figured as much...but I'd have hated to have someone misunderstand my response.

And yes...it was weak.

[dcisive]

The Messiah Yahushua (how it's pronounced from the Hebrew as HE is a Hebrew) met all the criteria for Messiahship. He came from the Lineage of David as was prophesied. Based on scripture from Isaiah and Psalms he also met the criteria for HIS death as well. HE did NOT come to establish a new religion (christianity) but to fully uphold the Torah as it was NOT being done by the Pharisees. HE wanted to bring it to fullness (not do away with it as churches teach). HE never left his Hebrew faith as did the Talmadim (apostles). They all taught obedience to YHVH's (God's) word as found in the Torah Scrolls....as HE said "Behold I come in the volume of the scrolls). Remember while many Jews of the day DID accept HIM as Messiah, later ones had scales placed upon their eyes so as to allow the Gentiles to come into the fulness of the Torah (not some so called new testament). That was a series of letters inspired by YHVH and spoken by the Talmadim (apostles) and it is all direct quotation of the Tanach (the Torah). They taught from the scrolls remember, they weren't books or KJV. LOL. Get a grip.....

[Fred314X]

Originally Posted by dcisive

The Messiah Yahushua (how it's pronounced from the Hebrew as HE is a Hebrew) met all the criteria for Messiahship. He came from the Lineage of David as was prophesied.

Jesus--the name is a Greek corruption of Yeshua--was never proven to have come from the line of David. The lineage that appears at the beginning of the NT has a gap of nearly five centuries between the last Hebrew king known to be a descendant of David (that would be Zerubbabel) and Jesus. The names in between are nothing more than fillers, put there to "prove" something that the authors knew very well had to be "proven" in order for their writings to have any acceptance. Period.

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by dcisive

The Messiah Yahushua (how it's pronounced from the Hebrew as HE is a Hebrew) met all the criteria for Messiahship. He came from the Lineage of David as was prophesied. Based on scripture from Isaiah and Psalms he also met the criteria for HIS death as well. HE did NOT come to establish a new religion (christianity) but to fully uphold the Torah as it was NOT being done by the Pharisees. HE wanted to bring it to fullness (not do away with it as churches teach). HE never left his Hebrew faith as did the Talmadim (apostles). They all taught obedience to YHVH's (God's) word as found in the Torah Scrolls....as HE said "Behold I come in the volume of the scrolls). Remember while many Jews of the day DID accept HIM as Messiah, later ones had scales placed upon their eyes so as to allow the Gentiles to come into the fulness of the Torah (not some so called new testament). That was a series of letters inspired by YHVH and spoken by the Talmadim (apostles) and it is all direct quotation of the Tanach (the Torah). They taught from the scrolls remember, they weren't books or KJV. LOL. Get a grip.....

He did not even come close to the Messiahship and actually during his time there were several rabbi that were closer to the Messiahship then him.

[MrBlueSky_]

Originally Posted by dcisive

The Messiah Yahushua (how it's pronounced from the Hebrew as HE is a Hebrew) met all the criteria for Messiahship.

Of course, when writing a sequel to a fantasy novel the author(s) can have the main character meet any criteria one wishes...

Here's a wonderful prophesy from a much better written fairytale:

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost; the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring; renewed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.”

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

You guys don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. I get that.

But based on the prophets, Messiah is supposed to come from the Tribe of Judah. Do you guys have any way of verifying the tribe of someone who comes claiming to be Messiah?

Nobody else has touched this and you deserve an answer. I think we'd be limited to any historical reference to the antecedents of a messiah or messiah claimant. If it's given. Bar Kochba might well have been from the tribe of Judah but from what I have seen no- one knows for sure.

Yet, from the Jewish point of view, whether one was the messiah or not depended more on what he did by way of fulfilling the scriptures about liberating Judea (Luke echoes this at 24 21 "But we kept hoping that he would be the one to redeem Israel.") than on descent from a particular tribe. Jews even speculated whether Herod could be the Messiah - and he was an Edomite. Josephus even seems to have come to the conclusion that Vespasian Caesar was the Messiah.

So, it is pretty difficult to determine anyone's descent from any particular tribe, so far as I know.

I'm not sure whether you are going to take this further and argue that Jesus' descent is known. If so, I'd point out that, as is well - known, the two genealogies in Matthew and Luke don't match.

P.s sorry, after posting, I saw there were, in fact, some good responses.