Convincing Evidence Against God (soul, atheist, gospel, bible)

[rifleman]

OK.... so all us d@mned atheists have had our say on why we don't believe in Christianity, a supernatural god capable of ignoring or temporarily bending the laws of physics, or of making the impossible or implausible happen overnight, on a whim.

We've asked for proof. Christian believers give us quotes from the bible, or vague references to equally vague propheses that could well have come about for a thousand reasons. Or they come up with statements like "Our existance proves there's a God!"

Well, hardly. Perhaps it's in that definition of the word "proof".

So. Here's your chance to show us your personal objectivity and standards for unquestioned intellectual honesty!
_______________________________________

What, exactly and specifically, would convince you that there is no God, no Jesus, no overall supernatural Christian existence, no heaven, no h$ll? What proof would you accept?
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Or, sadly, is it conceivable that there's no possible evidence that would ever convince you?

Even if we, for example, eventually came up with a time machine and took you back to, say, 10 million years ago and found actual Cro-Magnon men, or 50 million years, and found a bunch of saurian dinos, or if we used the same machine and never found a global flood or an improbable barge or a functioning Garden of Eden? Realizing that, according to YEC conjecture, if we tried to go back past about 6,000 to 10,000 years, we'd of course find nothing here. Before the Creation, don't you know....

Or if all the old testament stories were found to be nothing but allegories?

Would you then agree that it was all a great big sociological hoax? Could you agree and go on living?

I ask this because "science" has now provided a virtual mountain of evidence that, at the least, should have produced at least a glimmer, a tiny "titch" of doubt in your mind, and yet you categorically argue or dismiss or criticize it. Or, if it's particularly convincing, you claim that it's a hoax study done by some imaginary global conspiracy of bad scientists.

"There's no transitional fossils!" "Evolution's only a theory!" "God works in mysterious ways!" "Science is always biased!"

What thing(s), what evidence, what facts, would or could possibly convince you that Christianity's all a big hoax?

I'd then like to hear from the more open-minded and rational of you what you'd then do, hypothetically, if you came to that conclusion. Could you possibly go on living absent your past beliefs?

(Remember, we atheists have played this game for you several times in the past, according to your rules. Now it's your turn! Can you honestly answer this challenge?)

[Lionpainter]

Originally Posted by rifleman

OK.... so all us d@mned atheists have had our say on why we don't believe in Christianity, a supernatural god capable of ignoring or temporarily bending the laws of physics, or of making the impossible or implausible happen overnight, on a whim.

We've asked for proof. Christian believers give us quotes from the bible, or vague references to equally vague propheses that could well have come about for a thousand reasons. Or they come up with statements like "Our existance proves there's a God!"

Well, hardly. Perhaps it's in that definition of the word "proof".

So. Here's your chance to show us your personal objectivity and standards for unquestioned intellectual honesty!
_______________________________________

What, exactly and specifically, would convince you that there is no God, no Jesus, no overall supernatural Christian existence, no heaven, no h$ll? What proof would you accept?
__________________________________

Or, sadly, is it conceivable that there's no possible evidence that would ever convince you?

Even if we, for example, eventually came up with a time machine and took you back to, say, 10 million years ago and found actual Cro-Magnon men, or 50 million years, and found a bunch of saurian dinos, or if we used the same machine and never found a global flood or an improbable barge or a functioning Garden of Eden? Realizing that, according to YEC conjecture, if we tried to go back past about 6,000 to 10,000 years, we'd of course find nothing here. Before the Creation, don't you know....

Or if all the old testament stories were found to be nothing but allegories?

Would you then agree that it was all a great big sociological hoax? Could you agree and go on living?

I ask this because "science" has now provided a virtual mountain of evidence that, at the least, should have produced at least a glimmer, a tiny "titch" of doubt in your mind, and yet you categorically argue or dismiss or criticize it. Or, if it's particularly convincing, you claim that it's a hoax study done by some imaginary global conspiracy of bad scientists.

"There's no transitional fossils!" "Evolution's only a theory!" "God works in mysterious ways!" "Science is always biased!"

What thing(s), what evidence, what facts, would or could possibly convince you that Christianity's all a big hoax?

I'd then like to hear from the more open-minded and rational of you what you'd then do, hypothetically, if you came to that conclusion. Could you possibly go on living absent your past beliefs?

(Remember, we atheists have played this game for you several times in the past, according to your rules. Now it's your turn! Can you honestly answer this challenge?)

Happy Father's Day. Truly I can not go there, because of My experience. It is impossible for me to deny that which happened to me, for that which happened to me is Truth. I know you don't want to hear that, but it is truth. Have a good day

[AREQUIPA]

Well, it's a good question, rifleman..blow it let's give you a rep point...ughh..ughh...won't let me..you're too good..someone's jealous..

I have been asked 'What would convince you to believe in God?'

It's like there is one thing that 'turned me away from God' and if they just find out what it was they'd have the perfect smart answer to remove that doubt.

Needless to say, it's not as simple as that. It's a whole mass, plethora and slather of doubts that Mr. Theist would have to explain, remove and overcome before I could even consider it as likely.

So, indeed, what would it take to convince a Christian to deconvert?

From what I have read, it can be just one thing. Some pastor climbing aboard one of his flock, rolling up in a swanky car to preach about giving to the poor, a faith healer being seen buying medicine. It can be anything to raise the mental sluice gates that release the pent - deep fountains of doubt.

Thus one argument, about Bible contradictions, the problem of evil, the failed prediction of Matthew 16-28/Luke 9.27 or the slaughter of the kids by God won't persuade them, but that shock of finding a minister filching funds or fumbling the choir can be enough to start the deconversion

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by Lionpainter

Happy Father's Day. Truly I can not go there, because of My experience. It is impossible for me to deny that which happened to me, for that which happened to me is Truth. I know you don't want to hear that, but it is truth. Have a good day

Happy Father's Day back at'cha, and thanks! My kids are my pride & joy. And I get to educate them in "Reality 101"!

As to your somewhat deflective answer, I'll say: Sorta fair enough (not really, but what can I do about it....).

But say, just say hypothetically, that your God, the one you absolutely believe in now, came to you one day next week in his semi-transparent slivery sphere and confessed to you that he was really from the Planet Klorgon, that this was all his giant PhD experiment in terraforming and psychological diddling, and that He was really only a highly intelligent creature from a far-off planet?

And that it was all intended to look like inexplicable smoke and mirrors to us silly lo-IQ humans,at least for a while, until we abandoned hocus-pokus mumbo-jumbo and developed "science".

And then went on to provide you with instant re-plays of the important moments in your life on his Sony HD TV (because of course he'd planted that design with the Japanese about 10 years ago, leaving it in the Sony corporate lunchroom on purpose under a pile of newspapers...)


In other words, are you capable of accepting the unacceptable if it's thus PROVEN?

[GloryB]

I don't know if this is a suitable answer to everyone.....but my belief is that man is a spirit living within a physical body (an earth suit if you will). The physical body isn't the one that believes in God....so in most instances, there isn't a tangible way to prove God. The spirit is the part of a person that is eternal and connected with God. So, when people say they 'just know'....this is coming from their spirit and not their physical body.

If I didn't believe in God, before trying to prove He didn't exist, I would ask Him to let me know if He DID exist. If you are serious about the question.....you'll get a serious answer. And then you'll know for sure.

[Antlered Chamataka]

The Gospel according to rifleman

So why exactly are you thrusting this upon the theists? Isn't this the general accustation/allegation of the atheist?? the concept of thrust?

Or did the thrust mutate to acceptable thrust levels that you trust? Evolution, eh?

Who came first, the rifle or the rifleman?

[Predos]

For my part, I will provide an answer that I am sure that the theists out there, and possibly some of the atheists, will not be content with.

In my heart of heart, my soul if you will, I do not believe there is or ever was a god. Proof? No more needed that your proof that a god does exist. It is what I feel and that is enough for me.

[Lionpainter]

Originally Posted by rifleman

Happy Father's Day back at'cha, and thanks! My kids are my pride & joy. And I get to educate them in "Reality 101"!

As to your somewhat deflective answer, I'll say: Sorta fair enough (not really, but what can I do about it....).

But say, just say hypothetically, that your God, the one you absolutely believe in now, came to you one day next week in his semi-transparent slivery sphere and confessed to you that he was really from the Planet Klorgon, that this was all his giant PhD experiment in terraforming and psychological diddling, and that He was really only a highly intelligent creature from a far-off planet?

And that it was all intended to look like inexplicable smoke and mirrors to us silly lo-IQ humans,at least for a while, until we abandoned hocus-pokus mumbo-jumbo and developed "science".

And then went on to provide you with instant re-plays of the important moments in your life on his Sony HD TV (because of course he'd planted that design with the Japanese about 10 years ago, leaving it in the Sony corporate lunchroom on purpose under a pile of newspapers...)


In other words, are you capable of accepting the unacceptable if it's thus PROVEN?

LOL...you ask a question that if I were to answer, even hypothetically, would put me in a position that would deny that which happened to me and because of that experience I would have to say no I could not except that. I do like your imaginative theory because it does put a smile on my face...Take care and enjoy your day.

[rifleman]

Some interesting answers indeed, but again, the original post question is: What would it take to convince a theist that there is no God? (PS:I like the idea of finding the faith healer buying meds out behind his tent quite the mental image! Cute!)

C-A; just a simple question is all. I'm not trying to insult anyone or to raise a ruckus here. This question has been presented to atheists countless times on City-Data, the other way around:

("What would it take to make you believe, you Godless, morally bereft atheists!")

Is it possible to ever convince a Godly believer that it's just not possible? If not, then a lot of us have been wasting our time here in occasionally pleasant, but often frustrating, (and possibly pointless?) debate.

If that's truly the case, then we've been duped, I'd say.

As in: why bother if there's no intelligent life on the other side, willing to openly listen to anything?

Are the theist's responses just going to always be a long list of excuses or counter-statements with the sole purpose of defending what we atheists see as the indefensible? Is there no possible ***** in the armor?

(Ed note: yah gotta love the auto-deletion software here, removing the word CHIINKK! I suppose our Asian friends might object, huh? Funny.....)

We've certainly told you what would convince us, and I know that many Christians de-convert every day. How?

Well, as of right now, I'm off to do a very long drive (1450 miles) down I-5 to SoCal from central WA St. It will take myself and thotful1 about 3 days, and we won't be on-line for that time.

Got to take care of the aging parents on both sides. May the Force (and the diesel truck Gods) be with us in the F350!

[kdbrich]

They really don't have any other than that God has not personally appeared to them visibly to tell them he does.

Despite the evidence of creation and several other arguments that they can't refute like the cosmological argument, TAG, and others. They aren't about logical, rational thought.