Convince me (Mormon, worship, Catholics, Jewish)

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by Nea1

I am an agnostic, basically I just don't know either way. Convince me of God WITHOUT quoting anything from the Bible. I promise to listen ( or read!) with open mind.

My question is why come here and want to be convinced. If you want to know God then you will, if you don't, then oh well, have a nice life.

If someone came up to me and said convince me, I would probably look at them and say have a nice day. Because in reality, if you want to know about God, then you will seek Him out for yourself, if not, then why should someone else waste their time on you, if you don't want God. Just something to think about.

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

What caused it?

And before it? Where did the space for the universe come from? The matter?

You believe God always existed?
I believe matter and or energy has always existed!

[moonsun]

Originally Posted by Universe

I second that.

thank you

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

What caused it?

And before it? Where did the space for the universe come from? The matter?

Ok, just so you know,you will NOT convince me of God with an argument of where space came from. If everything has a creator, who created God?

Here is just a snippet and the link to the info.
THE BIG BANG

One of the most persistently asked questions has been: How was the universe created? Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however,no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning.

About 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. What exisisted prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation. This occurance was not a conventional explosion but rather an event filling all of space with all of the particles of the embryonic universe rushing away from each other. The Big Bang actually consisted of an explosion of space within itself unlike an explosion of a bomb were fragments are thrown outward. The galaxies were not all clumped together, but rather the Big Bang lay the foundations for the universe.

The origin of the Big Bang theory can be credited to Edwin Hubble. Hubble made the observation that the universe is continuously expanding. He discovered that a galaxys velocity is proportional to its distance. Galaxies that are twice as far from us move twice as fast. Another consequence is that the universe is expanding in every direction. This observation means that it has taken every galaxy the same amount of time to move from a common starting position to its current position. Just as the Big Bang provided for the foundation of the universe, Hubbles observations provided for the foundation of the Big Bang theory.

Since the Big Bang, the universe has been continuously expanding and, thus, there has been more and more distance between clusters of galaxies. This phenomenon of galaxies moving farther away from each other is known as the red shift. As light from distant galaxies approach earth there is an increase of space between earth and the galaxy, which leads to wavelengths being stretched.

In addition to the understanding of the velocity of galaxies emanating from a single point, there is further evidence for the Big Bang. In 1964, two astronomers, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, in an attempt to detect microwaves from outer space, inadvertently discovered a noise of extraterrestrial origin. The noise did not seem to emanate from one location but instead, it came from all directions at once. It became obvious that what they heard was radiation from the farthest reaches of the universe which had been left over from the Big Bang. This discovery of the radioactive aftermath of the initial explosion lent much credence to the Big Bang theory.

Even more recently, NASAs COBE satellite was able to detect cosmic microwaves eminating from the outer reaches of the universe. These microwaves were remarkably uniform which illustrated the homogenity of the early stages of the universe. However, the satillite also discovered that as the universe began to cool and was still expanding, small fluctuations began to exist due to temperature differences. These flucuatuations verified prior calculations of the possible cooling and development of the universe just fractions of a second after its creation. These fluctuations in the universe provided a more detailed description of the first moments after the Big Bang. They also helped to tell the story of the formation of galaxies which will be discussed in the next chapter.

[moonsun]

Originally Posted by Nea1

So I need to read another book to believe?

things do not get catched by wish

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828

My question is why come here and want to be convinced. If you want to know God then you will, if you don't, then oh well, have a nice life.

If someone came up to me and said convince me, I would probably look at them and say have a nice day. Because in reality, if you want to know about God, then you will seek Him out for yourself, if not, then why should someone else waste their time on you, if you don't want God. Just something to think about.

Easy answer. Find him yourself, really enlightening. How do you just KNOW God? Reading a book will help me know him? Because reading it caused me to question it. Why not explain why you believe, what convinced you?

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by moonsun

things do not get catched by wish

Ok........... Again, if I were to believe because a book says so, why not believe in the Norse god? Roman Gods? Greek Gods? All were written about and believed in.

[moonsun]

Originally Posted by Nea1

If everything has a creator, who created God?
.

this question is not logical and it is invalid and contradictory in it self
because Allah is the creator and he is not the created

for example we say Allah the strong and this Characteristic for Allah is invalid to have its Versa which is weak

same thing he is the creator we cant say he is created

and he is not created so how can we ask who created him .

if we have imposed - a controversy - there is a creator for the creator then we ask who is the creator of the creator and then
who is the creator that creat the creator of the creator

Thus, to continue indefinitely. This is impossible in the minds.

so he is the creator and every thing else is created and they end to him

he is the first and nothing before him
he is the last and nothing after him

the laws and rules of the universe is created by Allah and it does not apply on him

he does not need any thing to create the universe .


2:117 To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He
saith to it: "Be," and it is.

Sura #54 Al-Qamar / The moon verses 50
And Our Command is but a single (Act),- like the twinkling of an eye.

19:35 It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him!
When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

19:36 And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.


112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4 And there is none like unto Him.

and in the hadith

"Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your
Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such
thoughts."

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by moonsun

this question is not logical and it is invalid and contradictory in it self
because Allah is the creator and he is not the created

for example we say Allah the strong and this Characteristic for Allah is invalid to have its Versa which is weak

same thing he is the creator we cant say he is created

and he is not created so how can we ask who created him .

if we have imposed - a controversy - there is a creator for the creator then we ask who is the creator of the creator and then
who is the creator that creat the creator of the creator

Thus, to continue indefinitely. This is impossible in the minds.

so he is the creator and every thing else is created and they end to him

he is the first and nothing before him
he is the last and nothing after him

the laws and rules of the universe is created by Allah and it does not pply on him

he does not need any thing to create the universe .


2:117 To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He
saith to it: "Be," and it is.

Sura #54 Al-Qamar / The moon verses 50
And Our Command is but a single (Act),- like the twinkling of an eye.

19:35 It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him!
When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

19:36 And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.


112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4 And there is none like unto Him.

and in the hadith

"Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your
Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such
thoughts."

I don't think it is Invalid at all. I think it is very valid. A very reasonable question. So everything has a creator except the creator? He just became out of nothing? Again because a book says so I am too believe? Why believe in your god? Why not all the others? The books says so right?

[moonsun]

Originally Posted by Nea1

Again because a book says so I am too believe? Why believe in your god? Why not all the others? The books says so right?

When a nation start to ignore the testament of their prophet because hundreds of years passed since their prophet died and because of new generations then a new prophet is chosen from one of them to invite them to worship Allah and unification and Allah support his prophets with miracles .

The impact of the miracle is very strong for those who saw it
so the people start to become believers again and they tell the people who did not see the miracle and every generation tell the next generation but gradually the impact of the miracle is reduced and the people start to be infidels

So a new prophet is chosen from one of them and the events pass similarly

The message of Jesus (prayer and peace be upon him) was about 2000 years ago

The message of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) was 600 years after Jesus (prayer and peace be upon him)

Nowadays more than 1400 years since the message of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) and Allah told us in the Quran that Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) is the last prophet and he is sent to all people in all the world and the message is completed.

So there is no next prophet.

But should not we get a new miracle like the people in the passed ?!!

The answer is no because the miracle of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) is still alive with us and it is the Holy Quran.


The Quran is a record of the exact words revealed by God through the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad. It was memorized by Muhammad and then dictated to his Companions, and written down by scribes, who cross-checked it during his lifetime. Not one word of its 114 chapters, Suras, has been changed over the centuries, so that the Quran is in every detail the unique and miraculous text which was revealed to Muhammad fourteen centuries ago.
Understanding Islam and the Muslims - What is the Qur`an?