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I don't like that kind of talk by Christians. Catholics, at present, are not to evangelize to Jews at all. (I think that's an overreaction, but an understandable one) My point is that by saying Christianity is a lie, which is what you clearly seem to be saying, you aren't that much better. Is trying to discredit Christianity the only way for Jews to remain in Judaism?
To me it only encourages Christian Anti-Semitism. Much of the Anti-Semitism directed at Jews was based on the, often spurious, notion that "The Jews" were intent on defaming Christ and discrediting Christianity. That Jews wanted to desecrate our sacred places and mock our religion. And what you're doing, I fear, feeds that.
The Christian understanding of the messiah is different than the Jewish understanding. Defending your peoples' rejection of Christ as fulfilling the Tanakh is perfectly understandable. I just grow uncomfortable that you seem to want to go further and say the Jewish understanding is simply the right one. Do you want us to convert to Judaism? Or to abandon Christianity? Is this important to you? What about people like the Knanaya? They're believed to be descendants of the original Jews who accepted Christ. They take no converts and marry amongst themselves. You want their culture to die? To be discredited and destroyed as, sadly, Catholic Inquisitors once tried to do?
I totally disagree with your view on the efforts to show the christian movement as a myth and thus a fraud. The move by the Jewish population is way over due. They have been abused, killed, burned, gassed, and anything else the RCC could think of to gain power over them for the full history of the christian myth. To back away and just turn another cheek is insane. It is time to stand up and show the fraud, it is the only way to end the Christian Anti-Semitism.
Is exposing the fraud the same thing as the christian Anti-Semitism? I think it is not. It is just a people who are tired of being killed over a lie, and in exposing it as a fraud. They are not trying to wipe out a culture, or change the christians to their faith, but just survive.
Will it hurt the christian faith? Short term it will cause unrest, but truth is much stronger than a myth in the long run. "The truth will set them free", as they say.
Very well. The message is Christianity has to be destroyed to save the Jewish people. As Christians outnumber Jews by around 50 to 1 or more this message is idiotic and implausible.
The other possibility is the message is "Christians really hurt us and we need to hurt you back." At best this will get you pity.
So the message is "I'm pathetic", "I'm vengeful", or "I'm basically an idiot."
Last edited by Thomas R.; 07-07-2009 at 09:40 AM..
Reason: redoing
Very well. The message is Christianity has to be destroyed to save the Jewish people. As Christians outnumber Jews by around 50 to 1 or more this message is idiotic and implausible.
The other possibility is the message is "Christians really hurt us and we need to hurt you back." At best this will get you pity.
So the message is "I'm pathetic", "I'm vengeful", or "I'm basically an idiot."
I don't think the message is "Christianity has to be destroyed to save the Jewish people". Spare everyone the Christian martyrdom.
You know, the majority of people would be very satisfied to leave Christians and Christianity be and live in peace. No need to "destroy" Christianity. The real message (mainly to evangelicals) is, Christians need to leave other people alone and stop with the proselytizing, evangelizing, constant "witnessing" AND deriding, dismissing and insulting of other peoples' cultures and faiths (or lack of faith). It makes me laugh when evangelicals and fundies start the "we're persecuted and hated on a account of Jesus" crap. Believe what you wish! No, it has nothing to do with that. It's because so many evangelicals and fundies make themselves into a major pain-in-the-butt and people get sick of it. If Christians would just get that, there would be no backlash....but they won't.
Last edited by Fullback32; 07-07-2009 at 10:33 AM..
I'm not a fundie or an evangelical. However trying to prove a religion is a "lie", whatever the religion, is hostile. That's not hard to figure out.
And the reality is Christians are persecuted across the world. In Myanmar, in North Korea, and in much of the Islamic world.
Thomas, I can tell you are not a fundie or evangelical from your posts and I can appreciate that about you. Unfortunately, those that are speak too often for the rest of Christianity. This is why I attempt (though not always successfully) to state "evangelicals" and "fundamentalists" instead of broad brush "Christians".
Of course Christianity is not the only group involved in the attempt to change others, if not out right persecution. Christianity was/is definitely persecuted in the Communist and Islamic worlds. There is no doubt of that. To paint a faith as a "lie" is over the top as I personally believe that there is no absolute truth that we are aware of at this point. Truth is in the faith of the believer or non-believer. But, a lot of the hostility Christians (and this unfortunately extends to those Christians who do not deserve it) comes from the same thing. Words like:
Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, (name a non-Christian religion) is a lie of the devil.
The faiths of our native people were/are constantly refered to as "being full of demons and of demonic origin. They are lies.
The Jews are ignorant of their own writings and faith.
Hey Colossus, I am Jewish, my Shabbat is from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, today is Sunday!! As I have said many times before, you Christians read a Christian mistranslation of the Hebrew scriptures and suddenly you are all experts in Judaism!
I really love it when Jewish comics like John Stewart and Lewis Black ridicule Christians who attempt to explain "their" book.
The early Christians used the Septuagint. The Jews rejected this in a council around 70 AD. So are the things he's listing "lies" or are they just differences between the Septuagint and the canon established in Rabbinical Judaism?
More directly are you, ivaria, stating the Christians made alterations to the Septuagint? That the Septuagint version of Zechariah states
"And they shall look to Me because of the one who was thrust through, and they shall mourn over him as one mourns over an only son"
but the Christians changed it to
"And they will look on him they pierced, and mourn for him"
If so when did the Christians change the Septuagint? What Christians were involved in this change?
Note: There is debate when the Septuagint was created, but it almost certainly predates Christ.
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