Sex (Christian, believe, heaven, Christ)

[moonsun]

the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Allaah has decreed for the son of Adam his share of zina which will inevitably catch up with him. The zina of the eye is looking and the zina of the tongue is speaking. The heart wishes and longs and the private part confirms that or denies it.”

According to the version narrated by Muslim:

“The zina of the eyes is looking, the zina of the ears is listening, the zina of the tongue is speaking, the zina of the hand is touching, and the zina of the foot is walking. The heart wishes and longs and the private part confirms that or denies it.”

zina = adultery

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And verily, I am indeed forgiving to him who repents, believes (in My Oneness, and associates none in worship with Me) and does righteous good deeds, and then remains constant in doing them (till his death)”

[Ta-Ha 20:82]

[c'est la vie]

Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF

I said that sex was a primitive act/emotion and you're quipping in return that we shouldn't react until marriage.

Again your phrasing implies that sexual behavior is something over which we have little or no control, we simply 'react'.

What nonsense.

What if your spouse simply 'reacted' and committed adultery? Would you excuse it so easily? I doubt it.

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF

There are so many factors which reason that humans should know MORE about sex than simply waiting until marriage. I don't know if you've been in a cave for the past forty years, but in case you have, I'll help fill you in:

And they'd be better off if they did wait. At the very least we should not be treating our youth as if they have no responsibility for their actions.

[Puddy4LyF]

Originally Posted by c'est la vie

Again your phrasing implies that sexual behavior is something over which we have little or no control, we simply 'react'.

What nonsense.

What if your spouse simply 'reacted' and committed adultery? Would you excuse it so easily? I doubt it.

You're again missing the point. My point was that sex outside of marriage, just because you believe it to be wrong, doesn't mean that everyone else does. In fact, they prove this everyday. Marriage simply means very little to most people - and I can't blame them. It's a religious, man-made institution which has excluded many Americans - blacks, gays, etc, and has a success rate of just under 50%. How is that an asipring institution?

Most people believe there to be nothing wrong with two people who love each other and aren't married to have sex. So, what do you think they're thinking when you tell them not to have sex until they're married?

That's sex education?

Do you see my point yet? Or are we going to have to try this again?

So again, teach your kids either to wait for love or for marriage, good.

Teach them only that, bad.

[ShepsMom]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

And they'd be better off if they did wait. At the very least we should not be treating our youth as if they have no responsibility for their actions.

Treating our youth is to trust them and teach them how to be responsible. Just tell them "wait" isn't going to cut it.
"Forbidden fruit is sweet" comes to mind.

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

That's ultimately what it comes down to, isn't it? People don't like to live by what God has commanded.

You mean, the god who has placed sex above everything else as the worst possible act any human could commit?

[c'est la vie]

Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF

You're again missing the point. My point was that sex outside of marriage, just because you believe it to be wrong, doesn't mean that everyone else does. In fact, they prove this everyday. Marriage simply means very little to most people - and I can't blame them. It's a religious, man-made institution which has excluded many Americans - blacks, gays, etc, and has a success rate of just under 50%. How is that an asipring institution?

Most people believe there to be nothing wrong with two people who love each other and aren't married to have sex. So, what do you think they're thinking when you tell them not to have sex until they're married?

That's sex education?

Do you see my point yet? Or are we going to have to try this again?

So again, teach your kids either to wait for love or for marriage, good.

Teach them only that, bad.

Oh, so 'teach them to wait for marriage OR love', eh?

If the sexual urge is as strong as you imply, how can you expect them to wait for 'love'?

--------------------------------------------

What if your spouse simply 'reacts' and commits adultery but is not in love? Maybe they just 'found themselves in a situation where they will have sex'.

Would you buy this reasoning from them -- 'Oh well, we just found ourselves there. No idea how we got there and no idea how to keep it from happening. It's just where we found ourselves. You know how it goes because you're an enlightened individual, right?'

[Puddy4LyF]

Originally Posted by c'est la vie

Oh, so 'teach them to wait for marriage OR love', eh?

If the sexual urge is as strong as you imply, how can you expect them to wait for 'love'?

--------------------------------------------

What if your spouse simply 'reacts' and commits adultery but is not in love? Maybe they just 'found themselves in a situation where they will have sex'.

Would you buy this reasoning from them -- 'Oh well, we just found ourselves there. No idea how we got there and no idea how to keep it from happening. It's just where we found ourselves. You know how it goes because you're an enlightened individual, right?'

I never said sex was 'such a strong urge.' I said that along with monogamy, it had a strong evolutionary purpose. I also said that people were going to do it whether or not they are married. Looking at society and history, I believe I'm certainly correct on the latter. How again, do you disagree?

I think we're done here. You believe there is one way to do things, and incidently, it is the way you were raised. Nothing else is going to make sense to you. So, it really doesn't matter what anyone else says.

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by c'est la vie

Again your phrasing implies that sexual behavior is something over which we have little or no control, we simply 'react'.

What nonsense.

What if your spouse simply 'reacted' and committed adultery? Would you excuse it so easily? I doubt it.

The sex drive is one of the basic of human instincts. It is religion which has thrown dirt on sex and still attempts to defeat this instinct.
Adultery is sex outside of marriage - marriage is a human invention. Marriage is not ownership of a human.
How you excuse, or not, depends on your self-esteem.

[c'est la vie]

Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF

I never said sex was 'such a strong urge.' I said that along with monogamy, it had a strong evolutionary purpose. I also said that people were going to do it whether or not they are married. Looking at society and history, I believe I'm certainly correct on the latter. How again, do you disagree?

I think we're done here. You believe there is one way to do things, and incidently, it is the way you were raised. Nothing else is going to make sense to you. So, it really doesn't matter what anyone else says.

Either you believe that an individual can control his sexual behavior........

.....or you don't.

If an individual CAN control his sexual behavior, then your trashing of abstinence teaching is self contradictory.

It's clear that you realize your position IS self contradictory, but because of your anti-religious bias you cannot admit it.

Yeah, we pretty much are done here.