So today I returned to church, still on the fence (translation, churches)

[Lowerdeck]

After a year and a half, perhaps two years, of being away - I went to church this morning. It's perhaps been two and a half to three years since I went on my own free will. Kind of interesting to be back.

I'm still on the fence with my "status" on religious views. Some backstory before I get into my commentary:

I got saved in April 2000, but only because family members forced it upon me. Baptised in July 2001, but only because family members pushed me to doing it. I went to church semi-willingly for years, before finally saying no more in 2004.

I switched to deism by 2005, but had a second Christian stint off and on between then and late 2006. By 2007, I became a militant "F your God" atheist and consumed in anti-religious death metal as protest music. That faded away to a deist-agnostic viewpoint about 18 months ago. I went to a Unitarian Universalist church a few times in the spring of 08, but I found it pointless.

In the last 6-12 months, I have been talking to several Christians who like me were fed up with organized religion, the closed minded and judgmental, just all the negatives. They had warmed me up again towards giving me faith in God again and restarting an attempt at a relationship with Christ. Decided to give church another shot, but not sure how long that might last considering my liberal theological views.

But of course - the skeptic and deist in me still has doubts and frustrations.

I was at church today, and much of the time was just reading off Bible verses to explain the point of the discussion. To which I think - I do not have 100% trust in the Bible as being true and infallable. Between modern science discoveries and the Catholics radically altering the texts from the fourth century on: how can I trust this?

And then there was another comment, where the pastor was saying he went on Facebook, saw profiles of people in his church, and complained about how so many of them were "in the world" and needing to turn away. I understand that the point of being a Christian is having love in your heart for God and believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins. But we live in the world, we can not escape it. What exactly is "leaving the world"? Do you go Amish? Do you reject everything popular, and only immerse in Christian? Do you go to secular TV, music, websites - as long as it's considered "ok"? I don't quite get this concept. Even if you was enjoying secular things, if it does not break any of God's commandments or laws of the New Testament - where's the foul?


So, there's my ramblings for the day.

[MrBlueSky_]

Well, all I can tell you is that either "Christ is still working in your heart" or you were "never a true Christian to begin with", depending on what decision you make and which debate/discussion you might have with the "real" Christians.

[Lowerdeck]

Originally Posted by MrBlueSky_

Well, all I can tell you is that either "Christ is still working in your heart" or you were "never a true Christian to begin with", depending on what decision you make and which debate/discussion you might have with the "real" Christians.

I would lean towards the "never was a true Christian to begin with".

Some of my Christian friends have told me that God is working with me, and has blessed me with knowledge and wisdom and a desire to learn more. That my new girlfriend was a blessing for dropping my hostility against God (still unemployed after 10 months though). So I decided to give them a chance and see how this plays out. If God really opens me up and has me become a Christian ... or if I'm really just a deist and would never change.

Strangely enough, pastor today said "what kind of God lets a child be born and then abandons it" - a direct challenge against deism.

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

I would lean towards the "never was a true Christian to begin with".

Some of my Christian friends have told me that God is working with me, and has blessed me with knowledge and wisdom and a desire to learn more. That my new girlfriend was a blessing for dropping my hostility against God (still unemployed after 10 months though). So I decided to give them a chance and see how this plays out. If God really opens me up and has me become a Christian ... or if I'm really just a deist and would never change.

Strangely enough, pastor today said "what kind of God lets a child be born and then abandons it" - a direct challenge against deism.

The Bible story can be summed up... You live your life in whatever quality life you choose, you die, you are judged by your works...you are forgiven, you see God.

That's about it. Any church that disputes this fact. I wouldn't attend. No more guilt, no "second coming", no translation errors. You will not burn forever if you don't believe in God.

You have a teeny portion of history to work with: your lifetime. Make it the best you can. Love others and yourself.

What else is necessary to know? The moral. Not churchology.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

After a year and a half, perhaps two years, of being away - I went to church this morning. It's perhaps been two and a half to three years since I went on my own free will. Kind of interesting to be back.

I'm still on the fence with my "status" on religious views. Some backstory before I get into my commentary:

I got saved in April 2000, but only because family members forced it upon me. Baptised in July 2001, but only because family members pushed me to doing it. I went to church semi-willingly for years, before finally saying no more in 2004.

I switched to deism by 2005, but had a second Christian stint off and on between then and late 2006. By 2007, I became a militant "F your God" atheist and consumed in anti-religious death metal as protest music. That faded away to a deist-agnostic viewpoint about 18 months ago. I went to a Unitarian Universalist church a few times in the spring of 08, but I found it pointless.

In the last 6-12 months, I have been talking to several Christians who like me were fed up with organized religion, the closed minded and judgmental, just all the negatives. They had warmed me up again towards giving me faith in God again and restarting an attempt at a relationship with Christ. Decided to give church another shot, but not sure how long that might last considering my liberal theological views.

But of course - the skeptic and deist in me still has doubts and frustrations.

I was at church today, and much of the time was just reading off Bible verses to explain the point of the discussion. To which I think - I do not have 100% trust in the Bible as being true and infallable. Between modern science discoveries and the Catholics radically altering the texts from the fourth century on: how can I trust this?

And then there was another comment, where the pastor was saying he went on Facebook, saw profiles of people in his church, and complained about how so many of them were "in the world" and needing to turn away. I understand that the point of being a Christian is having love in your heart for God and believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins. But we live in the world, we can not escape it. What exactly is "leaving the world"? Do you go Amish? Do you reject everything popular, and only immerse in Christian? Do you go to secular TV, music, websites - as long as it's considered "ok"? I don't quite get this concept. Even if you was enjoying secular things, if it does not break any of God's commandments or laws of the New Testament - where's the foul?


So, there's my ramblings for the day.

I think you might want to find another church. I don't go to church because of my job, but church can really lead you away from God, at least that is what I have noticed in the past. Often church is just filled up with so many manmade rules, and it burdens people with nonsense. If you want to get close to God, you might want to give church a pass for a while.
The God of the Bible is just so much more than what we see in many of the churches these days. I would suggest just looking to Christ, and ask Him what course of action you should take.

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

I would lean towards the "never was a true Christian to begin with".

Some of my Christian friends have told me that God is working with me, and has blessed me with knowledge and wisdom and a desire to learn more. That my new girlfriend was a blessing for dropping my hostility against God (still unemployed after 10 months though). So I decided to give them a chance and see how this plays out. If God really opens me up and has me become a Christian ... or if I'm really just a deist and would never change.

Strangely enough, pastor today said "what kind of God lets a child be born and then abandons it" - a direct challenge against deism.

Going with your evident indecision about this Whole Jesus Thing, and following on from Campbell's suggestion that you reason it out and ask the god in your head (your own mind) what you are really after and what you need or want from religion or no - religion or something in - between, go for what seems best for you and for those who are going to be around you. It's your best chance of getting a happy result.

[DaniMae1]

If you are not won over after all of that then you most likely never will be. (speaking from experience). You will be miserable trying to fit in and "feel" like you are "supposed to feel." You'll always feel like the outsider. But I could be wrong. I hope you figure it out. I never did.

[tigetmax24]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

After a year and a half, perhaps two years, of being away - I went to church this morning. It's perhaps been two and a half to three years since I went on my own free will. Kind of interesting to be back.

I'm still on the fence with my "status" on religious views. Some backstory before I get into my commentary:

I got saved in April 2000, but only because family members forced it upon me. Baptised in July 2001, but only because family members pushed me to doing it. I went to church semi-willingly for years, before finally saying no more in 2004.

I switched to deism by 2005, but had a second Christian stint off and on between then and late 2006. By 2007, I became a militant "F your God" atheist and consumed in anti-religious death metal as protest music. That faded away to a deist-agnostic viewpoint about 18 months ago. I went to a Unitarian Universalist church a few times in the spring of 08, but I found it pointless.

In the last 6-12 months, I have been talking to several Christians who like me were fed up with organized religion, the closed minded and judgmental, just all the negatives. They had warmed me up again towards giving me faith in God again and restarting an attempt at a relationship with Christ. Decided to give church another shot, but not sure how long that might last considering my liberal theological views.

But of course - the skeptic and deist in me still has doubts and frustrations.

I was at church today, and much of the time was just reading off Bible verses to explain the point of the discussion. To which I think - I do not have 100% trust in the Bible as being true and infallable. Between modern science discoveries and the Catholics radically altering the texts from the fourth century on: how can I trust this?

And then there was another comment, where the pastor was saying he went on Facebook, saw profiles of people in his church, and complained about how so many of them were "in the world" and needing to turn away. I understand that the point of being a Christian is having love in your heart for God and believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins. But we live in the world, we can not escape it. What exactly is "leaving the world"? Do you go Amish? Do you reject everything popular, and only immerse in Christian? Do you go to secular TV, music, websites - as long as it's considered "ok"? I don't quite get this concept. Even if you was enjoying secular things, if it does not break any of God's commandments or laws of the New Testament - where's the foul?


So, there's my ramblings for the day.

Are you for real?

No offense, but there are so many on this forum that are dogmatically predisposed and pretending to be middle-of-the-road agnostic or play the part of "honest" skeptic. Pretending to be open minded.

If you are truly and honestly serious, I would be curious to get at the root of your "fence sitting" issue.

I would have to say that certain parts of your post seem to convey some underlying and rather dogmatic anti-Christian convictions.

[Lionpainter]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

After a year and a half, perhaps two years, of being away - I went to church this morning. It's perhaps been two and a half to three years since I went on my own free will. Kind of interesting to be back.

I'm still on the fence with my "status" on religious views. Some backstory before I get into my commentary:

I got saved in April 2000, but only because family members forced it upon me. Baptised in July 2001, but only because family members pushed me to doing it. I went to church semi-willingly for years, before finally saying no more in 2004.

I switched to deism by 2005, but had a second Christian stint off and on between then and late 2006. By 2007, I became a militant "F your God" atheist and consumed in anti-religious death metal as protest music. That faded away to a deist-agnostic viewpoint about 18 months ago. I went to a Unitarian Universalist church a few times in the spring of 08, but I found it pointless.

In the last 6-12 months, I have been talking to several Christians who like me were fed up with organized religion, the closed minded and judgmental, just all the negatives. They had warmed me up again towards giving me faith in God again and restarting an attempt at a relationship with Christ. Decided to give church another shot, but not sure how long that might last considering my liberal theological views.

But of course - the skeptic and deist in me still has doubts and frustrations.

I was at church today, and much of the time was just reading off Bible verses to explain the point of the discussion. To which I think - I do not have 100% trust in the Bible as being true and infallable. Between modern science discoveries and the Catholics radically altering the texts from the fourth century on: how can I trust this?

And then there was another comment, where the pastor was saying he went on Facebook, saw profiles of people in his church, and complained about how so many of them were "in the world" and needing to turn away. I understand that the point of being a Christian is having love in your heart for God and believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins. But we live in the world, we can not escape it. What exactly is "leaving the world"? Do you go Amish? Do you reject everything popular, and only immerse in Christian? Do you go to secular TV, music, websites - as long as it's considered "ok"? I don't quite get this concept. Even if you was enjoying secular things, if it does not break any of God's commandments or laws of the New Testament - where's the foul?


So, there's my ramblings for the day.

It's good to know that you still think about God and Christ. Have you prayed lately. Prayer is vital to reaching God's love, for in prayer is humility of the heart and soul. When you are humble in prayer, God listens. And your name reflects "lowerdeck" humility is in you, so use it to gain your advantage to Christ. Pray. Ask Christ to open your heart so you may gain knowledge of His will.

[achickenchaser]

I got saved in April 2000, but only because family members forced it upon me. Baptised in July 2001, but only because family members pushed me to doing it. I went to church semi-willingly for years, before finally saying no more in 2004.

This would describe me although it was much longer ago than the year 2000. Everything I did, before I was old enough to get away, was from family pressure.

It doesn't sound like to me you ever were a true believer. I mean, how could you go through a whole "F your God" phase if you were? Simply questioning things is not a good sign in the eyes of many fundamentalist.

One things for sure: whatever you decide on, you don't need some preacher telling you what God does or doesn't think/want. You can do that on your own without the religious garbage, if you do decide to believe in a God. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

This will, of course, make them mad. You'll be yet another tither that got away. It's not very good business for them when/if people find God by themselves.