Jesus Who! (Buddha, Jewish, believe, religion)

[irishmom]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

I don't doubt the existence of Jesus as a man. I do, however, doubt his existence as man brought to earth as the son of god. I think that might be a point of dispute with a lot of atheists/religious people. In my experience, it's not so much the dispute of whether he existed or not, but the dispute as to whether he really was who he said he was.

See this is how I see it...historians agree he existed the same as many other persons in history. The dispute of who He was is a faith issue. But He definitely was.

[ian6479]

there has been countless situations where historians have tried to find evidence of Jesus's existance. There is NO conclusive evidence other than texts written by men claiming to have known Jesus 50 years after his apparant death. These stories were all compatible with popular stories at the time.

The only evidence is the bible, and well, who can trust that!

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by irishmom

Oh I see what you are saying, and from a religious standpoint I can understand that. It just doesn't make sense to me from a non-religious standpoint. I am as anyone can see from my posts not mainstream in my personal beliefs, and even I don't get this. By applying the same standards to the existence of Jesus and to the existence of anything else accepted as history there is proof that a man named Jesus existed. I can understand controvery over if He was Christ or an ordinary man...that goes to faith...but I will never understand why doubt he was alive at all.

I'm tellin ya irishmom, if Jesus Christ isn't EXACTLY who the bible says He is....there is no reason.

[GCSTroop]

To me it's not such a big deal to try and prove whether he existed or not. To try and identify him as a person that actually existed doesn't really matter to me. If he did than great, but it still doesn't prove he was the Son of God. If he didn't, than well it wouldn't be the first time the bible was wrong about something.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by burdell

I've just seen people who don't like Iraq be accused of Bush-hating or those who question a religious belief be accused of hating Jesus a bit too often.
With three major religions so centered in Jerusalem I get very frustrated knowing how much death their conflicts have caused when I see religion as a force that should bring people together, not drive them apart. It's probably what keeps me away from organized religion, I think it would be the height of arrogance to believe my way is the only way in such a colossal universe. Probably why if forced to I would describe myself as spiritual and not religious.

I agree. And, for the record, not for my glory, I pray for Muslims and Jews. I don't hate either one. I love them all. Not 'flowers in the hair', 'here' hit the bong with me' kinda love....but a love that recognizes that, as far as my beliefs go, there's something about everyone that's in the image of God.

And, Jesus Christ knew every single one of our names....while on the cross. He died for you and He died for me. I don't hate, burdell. I'm glad you're not upset with me.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by ian6479

The only evidence is the bible, and well, who can trust that!

me....that's who....

[irishmom]

Originally Posted by ian6479

there has been countless situations where historians have tried to find evidence of Jesus's existance. There is NO conclusive evidence other than texts written by men claiming to have known Jesus 50 years after his apparant death. These stories were all compatible with popular stories at the time.

The only evidence is the bible, and well, who can trust that!

Having my own problems with the different translations of the bible....it's still a historical document. The existence of a man named Jesus along with much of the early history of civilization was kept through oral record and written down later. The gospels are just a written account of the oral record of history, which makes them historically of value. Just because you don't then take them on into your faith and interpret them to be a way to live or something to believe in for worship doesn't make them any less valued historicaly.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

To me it's not such a big deal to try and prove whether he existed or not. To try and identify him as a person that actually existed doesn't really matter to me. If he did than great, but it still doesn't prove he was the Son of God. If he didn't, than well it wouldn't be the first time the bible was wrong about something.

I've always felt that at the very least he offered some guidelines towards living a good life, nothing wrong with that.

[ian6479]

Originally Posted by irishmom

Having my own problems with the different translations of the bible....it's still a historical document. The existence of a man named Jesus along with much of the early history of civilization was kept through oral record and written down later. The gospels are just a written account of the oral record of history, which makes them historically of value. Just because you don't then take them on into your faith and interpret them to be a way to live or something to believe in for worship doesn't make them any less valued historicaly.

The existence of a man named Jesus along with much of the early history of civilization was kept through oral record and written down later.

Oral record, OK I get it now. With all his magical powers, and wonderous miracles occuring on a daily basis, and still nobody could write anything down

[irishmom]

Originally Posted by ian6479

The existence of a man named Jesus along with much of the early history of civilization was kept through oral record and written down later.

Oral record, OK I get it now. With all his magical powers, and wonderous miracles occuring on a daily basis, and still nobody could write anything down

See you are referring to Jesus as Christ, which is a faith based point. Strictly looking at if a man named Jesus existed in history there is evidence to support that, the same as there is evidence to support the existence of other people in history.