Jesus Who! (gospel, Commandment, miracles, Earth)

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by burdell

I've always felt that at the very least he offered some guidelines towards living a good life, nothing wrong with that.

No, it's not a bad thing to offer guidelines towards a good life. Buddha did the same thing. It's the way people use his name, or Muhammad's name or anyone elses name to further benefit their cause that blows my mind. It seems to me that that would be against the teachings of any of these people.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

riginally Posted by ian6479 View Post
The only evidence is the bible, and well, who can trust
that!

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

me....that's who....

And me too! I believe the Bible and trust it as God's Word.

[stretch00]

Originally Posted by irishmom

First all all...I love this line!

And you are right using non theological or religous records historians agree Jesus the man did exist. There is more evidence of his existence than that of Alexander the Great, Atilla the Hun and other historical figures. I think a better question is why do people want so badly to prove he didn't exist. You don't have to believe in him as a religious figure, and if you don't there should be no threat in accepting that a man named Jesus did exist...so why try to prove he didn't?

Upon what basis do you say there is more evidence for Jesus than for Alexander the Great?

We do not have coins with Jesus on them. We do not have writings from many different civilizations talking about his armies. We do not have cities names after him. We do not have sudden political upheaval based upon massive military invasions.

Sorry, you are simply wrong. There is ample historical evidence for many, many historical figures. There is not very much for JC.

That being said, I am not trying to disprove his existence. I do not really care all that much. I am responding to the OP and talking about the reliability of various sources.

[irishmom]

Originally Posted by stretch00

Upon what basis do you say there is more evidence for Jesus than for Alexander the Great?

We do not have coins with Jesus on them. We do not have writings from many different civilizations talking about his armies. We do not have cities names after him. We do not have sudden political upheaval based upon massive military invasions.

Sorry, you are simply wrong. There is ample historical evidence for many, many historical figures. There is not very much for JC.

That being said, I am not trying to disprove his existence. I do not really care all that much. I am responding to the OP and talking about the reliability of various sources.

Well if that's wrong then so is this entire book I guess: The Historical Figure of Jesus, E.P. Sanders - because that's where the analgy came from. I am assuming that you are eliminating the bible as a historical document when you say there are no accounts of Jesus because with out use of it you are right. But the fact is that even if you don't believe the faith, the document is a valid historical record.

[stretch00]

I have never read the book. But I have heard this canard many times. I am not eliminating the bible as a historical document. But it is a problematic one. Most of it was not written until many years after the events depicted. Many events depicted in the bible are simply wrong, as they do not match actual, reliably dated history. It has been edited over the years by people with an agenda. There is no supporting physical documentation. There are no corroborating documents.

As such, the bible can only be viewed skeptically. It has been proven to be imperfect.

There are no similar problems in the matter of proving Alexander the Great's existence, or Julius Caesar's, or many others.

[FL_TN_Nana]

Secular authorities on Jesus excerpted from Evidence for Christianity by Josh McDowell:

1. Cornelius Tacitus (I realize the OP already believes this history to be false.) He was a Roman historian and alludes to the death of Christ and existence of Christians as Rome.
2. Lucian of Samosata -- A Greek satirist who did not believe in the diety of Christ, but spoke of him and Christians in a rather demeaning way -- "misguided creatures" ...."from the moment they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws."
3. Suetonius -- Roman historian, court official under Hadrian, wrote Life of Claudius...referred to Jews making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [another spelling of Christus], he (Claudius) expelled them from Rome." ....This same even is referred to by Luke in Acts 18.2.
4. Pliny the Younger -- Governor of Bithynia -- sought counsel from the emperor Trajan as to how to treat Christians since he'd been killing so many men, women, boys and girls, he wanted to know if he should continue killing so many or just certain ones.
5. Thallus -- wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time, probably around AD 52. Refers to darkness at the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
6. Phlegon...confirmed darkness came upon the earth at the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
7. Mara Bar-Serapion, a Syrian, wrote a letter from prison to his son mentioning the Jews' King who they executed, along with mentioning Socrates and Pythagoras.

There are Jewish references (See: He walked among us: Evidence for the Historial Jesus. - Josh McDowell)

And of course we have the Bible and among those authors were eyewitnesses to his life and death and resurrection!

And then you have those of us who believe - I would like to think that some people do see Christ in us.

[wildberries61]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Your pretty much right.

The major difference between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity..in a word...is Jesus!

To him, a lot of similarities in all 3. Pretty wild, IMHO.

I actually never realized the similarities until coming on here and researching the 3 different religions. All striving for the same and all the misunderstandings and different beliefs are getting in the way!!

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Well, I don't know what you trust and what you don't.

But I've been watching the series 'Planet Earth' on The Discovery Channel.

Amazing show. Pretty non-religious. Talks about evolution. The narrator (Sigourney Weaver) even said at one point that chimpanzees future was threatened by their closet relative, another primate, humans...so anyway, pretty much on the non-religious thread. (Ya think?? It was TOTALLY non-religious....evolution as fact etc)

Anyway, there's one called 'Forests' and Mrs. Weaver is talking about these bristle comb pine trees that are the oldest living trees on the planet. something like 5000 years old. And she says....on THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL....NOT TBN...."These trees were already 2000 years old when Christ walked the Earth." So, maybe you think they are wrong. Maybe you think there was bias somewhere else. And maybe you can explain that away for yourself as easily as you explain all the other 'proof' we try and provide you.

Maybe you'll say "While there's very much support to imply there was someone nicknamed Christ, there's no proof it was Jesus of the Bible."

But it was said-so I can confidently tell you that not only do I not agree with you, but there's significant numbers of atheists that wouldn't agree with you either.

Alpha, This happens with every debate on JC that I've ever seen or been involved with. Not many posts go by before someone starts to confuse JC 'Son of God' with Jesus 'the man'. I'm not disputing the fact that there may have been some itinerant rabbi called Jesus who built up a bit of a following, upset the Romans and paid the price.....but son of god? No!

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by irishmom

First all all...I love this line!

And you are right using non theological or religous records historians agree Jesus the man did exist. There is more evidence of his existence than that of Alexander the Great, Atilla the Hun and other historical figures. I think a better question is why do people want so badly to prove he didn't exist. You don't have to believe in him as a religious figure, and if you don't there should be no threat in accepting that a man named Jesus did exist...so why try to prove he didn't?

Oh come on Irishmom! "More evidence of Jesus than Alexander et al!!!!! Where have you ever seen a bust or statue (outside Christianity) of JC? How many cities are there named after JC? How many coins have you seen with the head of JC on them? Evidence for Alexander, Ceasar et al abound in all these things.......there is none for JC.

[dncngrl1964]

it is against God's will to have trinkets of such

Jesus said: Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone graven by art and man’s device