On prayer and praying (atheist, paranormal, faith, Catholic)

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

I saw another thread on prayer and I may or may not have asked these questions before.

Why is it that when people pray they do NOT hear the audible voice of god giving them the answer right then and there? If you notice, they have to wait, see how things play out THEN determine whether god was willing to grant them the request or not. If things go their way, then god answered the prayer, but if it does not, then it was not his will. Doesn't he tell them on the spot "yes" or "no?" If you have to wait to see what happens to be able to determine what god wants or don't want, then is there really a god on the other end answering a prayer?

As earthly parents, none of us do this, right? When our kid asks us something, we tell them on the spot what our answer is. They rarely have to sit around waiting to see life lay out to see what we will do. If we can't do something at the moment, we tell them "maybe" or that we just can't do it or can't do it right then and there. They KNOW what to expect. But with god and prayer, people say they "hear" the audible voice of god, but I suspect the people who say this ONLY say they heard the voice of god giving them an answer only AFTER receiving what they desired.

Thoughts?

[Ratski_8]

I see my personal goals as something to pray for, but I don't expect God to do everything for me. because I work and pray for guidance to reach my goals. I did my foot work and when I reached a point that I have done all that I can do, I would Say a prayer and turn over the part of my goals that only god can take care of. I see things I have been able to do that would amaze my Family and friends. things that I could not control because I turned them over to gods wisdom and all I had to do is have faith! The faith I put in my prayers has helped me to achieve my goals a lot this year. I guess that the whole point in Praying is to have the faith to do so and believe in something greater than man..

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

Why is it that when people pray they do NOT hear the audible voice of god giving them the answer right then and there? If you notice, they have to wait, see how things play out THEN determine whether god was willing to grant them the request or not. If things go their way, then god answered the prayer, but if it does not, then it was not his will. Doesn't he tell them on the spot "yes" or "no?" If you have to wait to see what happens to be able to determine what god wants or don't want, then is there really a god on the other end answering a prayer?

As earthly parents, none of us do this, right? When our kid asks us something, we tell them on the spot what our answer is. They rarely have to sit around waiting to see life lay out to see what we will do. If we can't do something at the moment, we tell them "maybe" or that we just can't do it or can't do it right then and there. They KNOW what to expect. But with god and prayer, people say they "hear" the audible voice of god, but I suspect the people who say this ONLY say they heard the voice of god giving them an answer only AFTER receiving what they desired.

these are good questions to explore

why don't you try them out for yourself and see what happens?

that would be far more valuable than your "assumptions" and "guesses" bout other people's experiences, now wouldn't it?

the most valid and important data is that which you gather in your own life, in your own personal experience

[DaniMae1]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

these are good questions to explore

why don't you try them out for yourself and see what happens?

that would be far more valuable than your "assumptions" and "guesses" bout other people's experiences, now wouldn't it?

the most valid and important data is that which you gather in your own life, in your own personal experience

Pretty sure he's been there and done that! As have I. All that I've ever gotten from prayer is huge dissappointments. You know how dissappointing dissappointments are?!

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by DaniMae1

Pretty sure he's been there and done that! As have I. All that I've ever gotten from prayer is huge dissappointments. You know how dissappointing dissappointments are?!

he is the one who is asking the questions, and wrestling with his relationship to god, so i want to hear from him

although thank you for sharing your experiences in this area

[MysticPhD]

There are major problems that plague the efficacy of prayer . . . the most important being it requires unquestioning belief. Regrettably . . . the belief cannot be WILLED nor can it be WISHED into existence . . . and it only applies to specific individuals and spiritual concerns . . . not universal or carnal. Free will and Dominion mean exactly THAT as regards human activity and the world at large! ANY INTERFERENCE by God in the free will of anyone ("elect," "non-elect," or any other nonsense category) would AUTOMATICALLY ELIMINATE the free will of one or more of us being interfered with . . . unless it was the one(s) doing the praying/requesting.

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

he is the one who is asking the questions, and wrestling with his relationship to god, so i want to hear from him

although thank you for sharing your experiences in this area

She answered you correctly.

[Fred314X]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

Why is it that when people pray they do NOT hear the audible voice of god giving them the answer right then and there?

I think that if you're patient, it won't take long before certain individuals discover this thread. And they'll tell you without hesitation that they most certainly DO hear the audible voice of God when they pray. It's not even necessary to mention names; you probably already have a pretty good idea who they are. Just sit back and wait for their declarations.

[Thomas R.]

Originally Posted by DaniMae1

Pretty sure he's been there and done that! As have I. All that I've ever gotten from prayer is huge dissappointments. You know how dissappointing dissappointments are?!

He probably has, but for the most part I haven't. Been disappointed I mean.

I never got any grand miracle I guess, but I wasn't expecting God to be a genie or leprechaun. I'm not sure how to explain times prayer did do something for me without sounding silly or placing myself up to ridicule, but it's certainly happened. This is part of why atheism just would never work for me even at times I almost wanted it to. I'd have to declare a good portion of my life and my family history to have never happened or to have not happened the way I perceived it.

Considering I actually had a period where I was delusional I suppose this could be done, and I did consider that after my episodes, but it would require me to be delusional at almost any point in my life without any of things that caused my delusional period. (Those being PTSD and sleep deprivation) It would also require those periods to be shared delusions as, unlike my delusional period, the stuff I'm referring to had multiple witnesses. So I'd need to believe that my entire family, and me, are a people who have occasionally shared delusions and hallucinations at random intervals without stress or illness being involved. I don't find that very credible as if it were true I think we'd be much less functional than we are in reality.

So the times I've prayed and basically said "this is all nonsense, I'm just talking to myself" it was likely more out of depression than anything. On some level I suppose I really knew I couldn't actually deny God or be atheist. Anymore than I could become a basketball player or a Navy Seal. (Well in theory I suppose I could have become one of those who just believes in some kind of "Force" or the paranormal or something) Atheism might be pleasurable, even comforting in its way, but I knew it was either false or something I was at least incapable of really accepting. I exist because of God and to an extent the Catholic faith. To deny it I'd have to deny my reality and to a degree deny my right to exist. As from an atheistic perspective I think my life is parasitic, I have taken more resources than I'll ever give back, and I really should just die. So that path is totally, completely, and utterly dead in me.

It's still fun to think about atheism and atheists though.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

Why is it that when people pray they do NOT hear the audible voice of god giving them the answer right then and there?

Why on earth would you expect answers? Pray for guidance.......pray just to establish a connection with God/the Creator. You cannot petition God with prayer. (I think that is what Jim Morrison said) Dam son, if you could get the answer like that you could pray before hitting the slots and come out rich.

Jesus gives you an excellent description of how and where to pray in Matthew 6.

What has to be sought is not specific answers, but simply an infilling by the spirit that guides you...........provides you with a moral center that you can use to base your decisions on......don't bother asking what color shirt you should wear today....ask how you can help someone less fortunate than you. After all, one of the few petitions taught is that you are to ask that He "give us today our daily bread" and don't bother with tomorrow........